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Addictive cheap and controversial: the rise of China’s Temu app
- resolutebat 3y agoThese "incredibly cheap" prices have been available for a long time if you could deal with the interface, language and shipping hassles of AliExpress /Alibaba/Taobao, Temu just wraps it in a pretty UI with some shipping hacks on top. Story time: I was recently looking for a cover for my car. Local retailers wanted $200+, but a spot of image reverse searching revealed that you could buy exactly the same thing direct from the manufacturer for $2 (two) dollars. However, minimum order on Alibaba was 10 pieces and shipping price & timeline was unclear. I ended up ordering from Temu for ~$30 all in, and it was on my doorstep in under a week.
- Cyphase 3y ago~$30 for ten pieces, or for one?
- smegsicle 3y agoten sounds like a pain, for two sounds like a good deal
- resolutebat 3y agoJust one, but shipping included.
- yread 3y agoPrices on alibaba (and sometimes AliExpress) are a bit misleading as the shipping prices are excessive (and change depending on the model) so you should always look at the total sum
- sacnoradhq 3y agoCaveat calculator.
- RamblingCTO 3y agoAli got really expensive over the years. Especially in the ultralight hiking community there are/were some really good gear choices for a bargain (Aegismax, IceFlame quilts and 3F UL equipment amongst others).
- olabyne 3y agoI don't know for the US, but in Europe they got expensive over the year because they had to comply with import taxes, warranty and now are shipping a lot of products directly from europe. Who remember the good old days where anything from aliexpress would pass the customs without taxes, even on expensive products (phone/hightech) ? I always wondered if they had not an arrangment with the shipper/customs. Because at the time, anything from say a store like hobbyking, even small package worth a few dozens €, was always flagged at the customs.
- pjc50 3y agoThey certainly used to just lie on the customs forms; "sample", "no commercial value", "gift" etc.
- Yeul 3y agoBig retail chains in my country used to have their own agents in Hong Kong that bought Chinese products by the container load. They then put a nice profit on it in their stores. The internet just made people aware how much they were overpaying for this stuff. I for one am happy for those Chinese who are now able to cut out the white middleman.
- lm28469 3y ago> Local retailers wanted $200+, but a spot of image reverse searching revealed that you could buy exactly the same thing direct from the manufacturer for $2 Local shop sells sunglasses for $15, I found them on aliexpress for 50ct, and on etsy for $27 80% of what you see on etsy and amazon is aliexpress dropship, and it's leaking in the real world at a fast rate too.
- delfinom 3y agoO no, Amazon is worse. They run a program directly for Chinese manufacturers to sell in US Amazon and even bulk ship their goods on Amazon chattered freighters.
- an_aparallel 3y agowhat is so irritating is how many times you google for something specific and the exact thing you're looking for comes up on temu, but not on "proper" stores. Also - my mum bothering me every few days about something she's found on temu, and me trying my hardest to get her to stay off it.
- herbst 3y agoIt's interesting how Google is still allowing them to advertise non existing products. Kinda sad they care so little
- an_aparallel 3y agolol, i never really click through - i had no idea they were non existent.
- twelfthnight 3y agoI like to think that the generous money I get from Tech is as much a responsibility as it is a luxury. I try to avoid mega retailers like Alibaba, Temu, Amazon and Walmart. In my mind, it's less to do with getting better costumer service or anything, but rather that if everyone puts their money in the same place then companies get too big and distort economies.
- kajecounterhack 3y agoI find this noble and do some similar tiny acts of defiance myself, but if we're being real it doesn't move the needle. The avg behavior has to change to affect their bottom lines, and your personal spending (even with advocacy) is not likely to meaningfully affect the mean. Supply side changes are needed, whether by way of regulation or emergent competition.
- uoaei 3y agoThat's true but doesn't really invalidate the approach, nor is it an excuse to revert to whatever everyone else is doing.
- kajecounterhack 3y agoIt's not intended to invalidate the approach (again, I participate in the same manner as OP). But free-market capitalism's (well studied) failure mode is natural monopoly and _that_ really can't be fixed without further intervention. Preventing megacorp monopoly isn't something you can do by simply swaying the individual's dollar vote. Or maybe I'm missing some example in history?
- uoaei 3y agoYeah there is no way to coordinate a critical mass of wallet-votes to convince companies to change, especially as long as their prime offering (pun intended) is convenience. There are people on this very website who will openly admit to comprehending the problematic nature of their participation in such systems and yet still justify it openly on the grounds that they have too much money to care and value their own time over the suffering of others. Systemic problems require systemic solutions. To preempt an obvious rebuttal: shaping the landscape of choices that are available to consumers is literally how markets work so it's not like libertarians or other "free" market fanatics have a high horse when we introduce ideas like regulations on corporate behavior.
- modeless 3y agoThe last few times I found something on Temu and thought it was cheap, I went to Amazon and found the same thing as cheap or cheaper with Prime shipping and free returns.
- Dah00n 3y agoAnd then you gave an even worse company your money. It is hard to avoid.
- resolutebat 3y agoAre you in the US? Temu is heavily targeting countries that don't have local Amazon.
- smegsicle 3y agothats an interesting angle they may not have guts but they aint stupid
- gambiting 3y agoI'm in the UK and Temu advertising is relentless, I see it everywhere all the time.
- meowtimemania 3y agohow do they have so much money for advertising?
- lozenge 3y agoInvestors? It could be a strategy by the Chinese government to cut out the non Chinese retail companies and distributors that take 35%-70% of the revenue from each product.
- throwaway2990 3y agoVery little money goes to sellers. Sellers in China complain they are forced to lower prices or risk being kicked off the platform. The profit margins for sellers basically don’t exist while Temu aims for #1 shopping app spot.
- teruakohatu 3y agoTemu is also spending a lot of money advertising in New Zealand. The catalog is minimal and when they do have what I want it's terrible quality. Aliexpress has all the same low quality products but often mid-range and Chinese brand name products as well. The search is terrible, it seems the app is built around getting you to impulse buy dollar store gadgets.
- cuteboy19 3y agoI could get used to the app if it didn't shove 3 popups in my face every time I open it
- iforgotpassword 3y agoThat's Chinese Apps for you. I haven't tried TEMU yet, but the typical Chinese App opens a popup on you in what feels like every fucking second. Even something like Baidu Maps shoves an ad into your face every time you switch to another app and then back. It reminds me of early 2000s Internet, before popup/ad blockers.
- Dah00n 3y agoGoing through HN top list today on a machine with no ad blocker I see the same in pretty much all US sites: Cookie popup that is clearly illegal, lots of ads, cookies and trackers (189 on one site), then some JavaScript pop-up about whatever (newsletter mostly) when moving the mouse outside the frame. It is not any better. At most more polished but likely we are just used to it. Good thing I have adblockers in both my normal machines browser and on the firewall.
- herbst 3y agoNoticed this as well. Temu seems to have the lowest quality and just that of every product category pricing it about twice as other platforms.
- shimonabi 3y agoI made just 1 order from Temu until today. Unlike Aliexpress, Temu doesn't seem to pay any tax or customs in my EU country. I don't get it how they can get away with it.
- mwidell 3y agoI think if you import to the EU via Netherlands and repack you get away with it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
- ornornor 3y agoVery curious about this, would love for someone to expand on how this potential loophole works.
- wallaBBB 3y agoThat is not the case with Aliexpress and EU countries for some time now (since July 1 2021). There's been a deal at EU level with Ali that it includes local VAT at checkout, for items of lower value.
- mongol 3y agoThat is likely worse for you since chances are you will have to pay it yourself + administrative fee when your products arrive
- seydor 3y agoAFAIK they have warehouses in europe. The import duty is paid, which can be a real hassle with other chinese imports (e.g. you 'd have to go to a post office to pay the duties)
- bilekas 3y agoThere's been a lot of "investigative" journalism but has there actually been a proper card to door processing done? All I've seen is that they take a hit, sometimes send some extra stuff and constantly ignore/refund charging complaints. Seems they're losing money but nobody has definitively told me why.
- richbell 3y ago> Seems they're losing money but nobody has definitively told me why. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lossleader.asp#:~:text=A%20loss%20leader%20strategy%20involves,business%20first%20enters%20a%20market https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lossleader.asp#:~:text=...
- cyp0633 3y agoPlease remember that Pinduoduo (from the same company as that of Temu) steals information with 0day exploits from consumers in China.
- c420 3y agoThis!!! Though it's only limited to China because the app was banned here in March. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/tech/china-pinduoduo-malware-cybersecurity-analysis-intl-hnk https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/tech/china-pinduoduo-malware-... "according to cybersecurity researchers, it can also bypass users’ cell phone security to monitor activities on other apps, check notifications, read private messages and change settings. And once installed, it’s tough to remove." “We haven’t seen a mainstream app like this trying to escalate their privileges to gain access to things that they’re not supposed to gain access to,” said Mikko Hyppönen, chief research officer at WithSecure, a Finnish cybersecurity firm. “This is highly unusual, and it is pretty damning for Pinduoduo.”
- fulafel 3y agoAlso: "Soon after, on March 5, Pinduoduo issued a new update of its app, version 6.50.0, which removed the exploits, according to two experts who CNN spoke to. Two days after the update, Pinduoduo disbanded the team of engineers and product managers who had developed the exploits, according to the Pinduoduo source. [..] Most of the team were transferred to work at Temu. "
- jesterson 3y agoBut that's not as exciting to the crowd as "look!! chinese app stealing data!"
- c420 3y agoUh, I'm not understanding your snark: It's established that a Chinese app was utilizing 0 days and escalating priveledges to exfiltrate data. Most of that team was then transferred to work on the Temu app. According to you, this is not at exciting to the "crowd" as pointing out that these Chinese apps are stealing data?
- samsaga2 3y agoI don't see those cheap prices advertised everywhere. I see very high discounts in which the final price ends up being the same price as on Aliexpress.
- walthamstow 3y agoIf it looks too good to be true, it usually is. It's sad how many people have forgotten this simple aphorism, perhaps due to years, decades even, of free products such as Gmail/Docs and Facebook. Anyone with this app on their phone should read this recent post here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37427008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37427008
- Dah00n 3y agoThe title had me click away instantly. The "US security threat!" is always clickbait, even if true, as it is not a title that tells you any information but try to force readers to read on because of fear. It is fox news style in other words.
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- RugnirViking 3y agoI looked into temu but their catalogue was paper thin. Couldn't find much I wanted at all.
- est 3y agoThe Chinese users also hate Temu (com.xunmeng.pinduoduo) but when price is right still choose to use it. e.g. buying latest iPhones with 10% off, when genuine ensured.
- seydor 3y ago> The app and website are an assault on the senses The website is just like anything else, with cheaper aesthetics. I don't understand the use of loaded language here (addictive / controversial). Is it just because it's chinese? Ebay sells the same stuff
- herbst 3y agoIt's so weird when all the blame is on apps like Temu and people still willingly buy the same shit with a 1000% markup on Amazon with less customer service than AliExpress. Or on eBay with even less service, a little less markup but often even worse shipping times than buying directly from china yourself.
- jesterson 3y agoMarkup doesn't necessarily means "greedy marketer". Sometimes it is localisation, post sale support, warranty, etc. Surprisingly as it may be, it costs money.
- herbst 3y agoI don't disagree, I am happy to buy resale products locally with a surcharge for the service. But if you buy Amazon warehoused china products, with the kinda bad service from Amazon you are just getting a worse deal for the same product.
- yankput 3y agothis “assault on senses” is normal in these Chinese/Asian shopping apps, even the more “standard” ones. I know more the SEA ones than Chinese ones but they are all like this. I don’t know who likes it, but it obviously works, as everyone over there is doing it.
- watersb 3y agoIt reminds me of the sensory overload of casino slot machines. Makes my head explode, and I just walk away. But many people just can't. The overload is a rush for them.
- tjrgergw 3y agoMany in the West are worried about the rise of China. Seeing how shit _everything_ coming out of China is, I'm not worried.
- lm28469 3y agoMost of the things sold in the west come from Asia, most of it from China. Virtually nothing large scale is made locally anymore besides a few niche industries
- sixothree 3y agoYes. But that part of a cycle we’ve seen before. So if you’re not worried because of the quality alone, you certainly should be.
- jstarfish 3y agoThey export their garbage. They keep the good stuff for themselves. Domestic Chinese products are way better than the crap Americans buy for ourselves. Chinese clothes are way more durable than Target's overpriced rags (i.e. they can be mended). Huawei tech beats the pants off of everything short of Apple.
- tjrgergw 3y agoYes, you can tell they keep the good stuff for themselves by looking at the quality of their real estate development /s
- cph123 3y agoI have been using Temu recently for electronic components. There are some reasonable value kits of resistors, LEDs, breadboards, etc that I use in my workshop.
- cainxinth 3y agoEveryone in this thread is discussing economics. What about safety and reliability? It’s my understanding that Wish, Temu, and other low cost Chinese etailers sell a ton of counterfeit, bootleg goods with phony safety certifications (if any). Are the days of lead paint in toys, cheap batteries that explode, toxic drywall, makeup with arsenic in it, and the like over in China?
- reisse 3y agoWhen the same stuff is sold on Amazon with 2x to 10x markup, it doesn't magically become safer, non-counterfeit or certified. Everyone is discussing economics because it's the only difference between ordering on Aliexpress/Taobao/Temu directly, and buying from Amazon/Ebay/Etsy/etc.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago> “At the same time, Temu and Shein are building empires around the de minimis loophole in our import rules – dodging import taxes and evading scrutiny on the millions of goods they sell to Americans.” https://apnews.com/article/temu-shein-forced-labor-china-de7b5398c76fda58404abc6ec5684972 https://apnews.com/article/temu-shein-forced-labor-china-de7... > imported packages valued under $800 receive tax exemptions and less oversight from U.S. customs.
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoI guess I'm the only one who actually enjoys Temu here. Do your research and you'll find great deals on their site. Half the stuff on Amazon is dropshipped from China anyways, why not cut out the middleman?