4 ms·

If I recall, that's kind of deceptive. Particulate emissions from tires are much larger particles that fall out of the air much more rapidly and aren't nearly

If I recall, that's kind of deceptive. Particulate emissions from tires are much larger particles that fall out of the air much more rapidly and aren't nearly as linked to bad health compared to combustion products.

dataflow 3y ago
I guess I'm confused what specifically they were finding disgusting on the road. I thought they meant smog, which is mostly particulate matter?
- Retric 3y ago
  The concerning bits are mostly “Ground-level ozone, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide” which are all gases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog Particulate matter from tires is more concerning if you live next to a major highway. However in cities it’s almost all combustion byproducts with significantly lower tire ware due to low speeds + lots of idling at stoplights. Which is why catalytic converters made such a huge impact.
  - dataflow 3y ago
    I get that those are concerning, but "disgusting for pedestrians and cyclists"? O3, SO2, and CO are all invisible, and even SO2 is not something people see at a close distance AFAIK. Moreover I don't understand how they would be noticeably different for drivers vs. pedestrians/cyclists. Only the particulate emissions (smoke etc.) are things that would seem noticeably different, no?
    - Retric 3y ago
      Exercise means significantly faster breathing and thus significantly more exposure per minute. Road cyclists can and should use a mask which helps vs particulates, but they can’t easily avoid these gasses. Also, while most cars have some air filtration for the cabin the quality of that filtration can vary quite a bit. It can be well worth an aftermarket upgrade.
noizejoy 3y ago
> ... particles that fall out of the air much more rapidly and aren't nearly as linked to bad health ... ... unless you eat seafood[0]? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539
Gibbon1 3y ago
There's is also pulling out an actual source rather than hand waving conjecture based on random opinion pieces. https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehicle-emissions-rates-vehicle-vehicle-type-using-gasoline-and https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehic... Gasoline cars 2020: Exhaust 0.005 g/mile. Brakes 0.003 g/mile, tires 0.001 g/mile. So exhaust + brakes produce 8 times as much PM2.5 as tires. So the argument but 'but but EV's are heavier and produce more PM2.5 than gasoline cars' doesn't cut it. Also I've seen references that show natural gas heating isn't nearly as clean as portrayed.

dataflow 3y ago

I guess I'm confused what specifically they were finding disgusting on the road. I thought they meant smog, which is mostly particulate matter?

Retric 3y ago
The concerning bits are mostly “Ground-level ozone, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide” which are all gases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog Particulate matter from tires is more concerning if you live next to a major highway. However in cities it’s almost all combustion byproducts with significantly lower tire ware due to low speeds + lots of idling at stoplights. Which is why catalytic converters made such a huge impact.
- dataflow 3y ago
  I get that those are concerning, but "disgusting for pedestrians and cyclists"? O3, SO2, and CO are all invisible, and even SO2 is not something people see at a close distance AFAIK. Moreover I don't understand how they would be noticeably different for drivers vs. pedestrians/cyclists. Only the particulate emissions (smoke etc.) are things that would seem noticeably different, no?
  - Retric 3y ago
    Exercise means significantly faster breathing and thus significantly more exposure per minute. Road cyclists can and should use a mask which helps vs particulates, but they can’t easily avoid these gasses. Also, while most cars have some air filtration for the cabin the quality of that filtration can vary quite a bit. It can be well worth an aftermarket upgrade.

noizejoy 3y ago

> ... particles that fall out of the air much more rapidly and aren't nearly as linked to bad health ... ... unless you eat seafood[0]? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37726539

Gibbon1 3y ago

There's is also pulling out an actual source rather than hand waving conjecture based on random opinion pieces. https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehicle-emissions-rates-vehicle-vehicle-type-using-gasoline-and https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehic... Gasoline cars 2020: Exhaust 0.005 g/mile. Brakes 0.003 g/mile, tires 0.001 g/mile. So exhaust + brakes produce 8 times as much PM2.5 as tires. So the argument but 'but but EV's are heavier and produce more PM2.5 than gasoline cars' doesn't cut it. Also I've seen references that show natural gas heating isn't nearly as clean as portrayed.