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>OpenAI's entire argument hangs on not understanding how its tech works! I can't see any difference between that and fraud. This is how I see it as well. If y

by devmor 3y ago

>OpenAI's entire argument hangs on not understanding how its tech works! I can't see any difference between that and fraud. This is how I see it as well. If you can't explain, in detail, how your mechanism is not violating copyright then you have no defense.

Tadpole9181 3y ago
That's not how law works in the US. You are presumed innocent and there must be a preponderance of evidence of guilt. If they can't prove the AI model contains or reproduces exact copies of their copyrighted work, there's no case to be had.
- devmor 3y ago
  No one said otherwise. There is already a case against them, their defense is that they don't know how it works, so it can't be true. This was clearly laid out in the comment I replied to, and the comment that reply was made to in turn.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  But we can. There are countless documented instances. OpenAI describes these as "limitations". A more accurate word would be "features".
  - skeaker 3y ago
    Is this true? As far as I am aware there are zero pixel for pixel recreations by an image generating AI of any pre-exisiting images and no written work has ever been word-for-word reproduced in full. The closest I've seen are images highly similar to the Mona Lisa which is already copied virtually everywhere without AI and brief passages from commonly copied written works that veer into hallucinations after a paragraph or two.
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      Why does it need to be exactly the same? You have shifted the goalposts to absurdity.
      - skeaker 3y ago
        Because the parent comment says "But we can" in response to the claim that AI can't generate "exact copies." Generating exact copies would be a lot more legally notable than outputs that are only similar or partially copied. As far as I know exact copies haven't happened and was legitimately asking for cases where it has.
- blibble 3y ago
  > That's not how law works in the US. You are presumed innocent and there must be a preponderance of evidence of guilt. true for criminal cases but this is a civil? so it's balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt
  - dcow 3y ago
    civil cases is preponderance of evidence. criminal is beyond a reasonable doubt. in any light, yes civil cases are about whether you’re more likely than not to be liable

by devmor 3y ago

Tadpole9181 3y ago

That's not how law works in the US. You are presumed innocent and there must be a preponderance of evidence of guilt. If they can't prove the AI model contains or reproduces exact copies of their copyrighted work, there's no case to be had.

devmor 3y ago
No one said otherwise. There is already a case against them, their defense is that they don't know how it works, so it can't be true. This was clearly laid out in the comment I replied to, and the comment that reply was made to in turn.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
But we can. There are countless documented instances. OpenAI describes these as "limitations". A more accurate word would be "features".
- skeaker 3y ago
  Is this true? As far as I am aware there are zero pixel for pixel recreations by an image generating AI of any pre-exisiting images and no written work has ever been word-for-word reproduced in full. The closest I've seen are images highly similar to the Mona Lisa which is already copied virtually everywhere without AI and brief passages from commonly copied written works that veer into hallucinations after a paragraph or two.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Why does it need to be exactly the same? You have shifted the goalposts to absurdity.
    - skeaker 3y ago
      Because the parent comment says "But we can" in response to the claim that AI can't generate "exact copies." Generating exact copies would be a lot more legally notable than outputs that are only similar or partially copied. As far as I know exact copies haven't happened and was legitimately asking for cases where it has.
blibble 3y ago
> That's not how law works in the US. You are presumed innocent and there must be a preponderance of evidence of guilt. true for criminal cases but this is a civil? so it's balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt
- dcow 3y ago
  civil cases is preponderance of evidence. criminal is beyond a reasonable doubt. in any light, yes civil cases are about whether you’re more likely than not to be liable