3 ms·

The question has to be asked: did the event organizers define what "woman" and "non-binary" means, and whether one can be fluid in one's identity, changing day-

by mikece 3y ago

The question has to be asked: did the event organizers define what "woman" and "non-binary" means, and whether one can be fluid in one's identity, changing day-by-day (or even during the day) if that's what moves them?

foldr 3y ago
The definition of 'woman' is irrelevant here, as the conference is not strictly limited to people who are women or non-binary: >Earlier in the week, the organization addressed calls to ban men from the conference by saying that "male allyship is necessary" to work toward overall inclusivity and also that federal law prohibited discrimination based on gender. So even if you made people get their vaginas out when they checked in, there is nothing to stop people who aren't women by any definition from being assholes and attending a conference that's clearly not intended to be a space primarily for them.
- dpkonofa 3y ago
  Thank you! This victim-blaming nonsense is so infuriating to see. As long as people are willing to be dishonest, this same thing can happen in any area where spaces are designated for certain people. The argument the parent is making is essentially akin to "maybe they should have changed the dress code if they didn't want people being raped" instead of blaming rapists.
  - brickening 3y ago
    We can simultaneously both blame rapists and have effective safeguarding policy that minimizes the risk of rapists getting access to victims. As an example, prisons almost always have a policy of sex segregation, with separate estates for each sex. The female prison estate is designated solely for female prisoners, and the male estate solely for the males. This physical separation safeguards the female inmates from male inmates, many of whom are very dangerous and have already raped. In recent years, a handful of jurisdictions have experimented with allowing some male prisoners in the female prison estate, which resulted in sexual assaults and rapes of women prisoners, and even some pregnancies. The rapist men are to blame of course, but they were enabled in their crimes by a set of horrifying policy changes that put so many vulnerable women at a hugely increased risk. It's not victim-blaming to point this out and insist that this broken policy be changed.
    - dpkonofa 3y ago
      You literally just said “they were enabled in their crimes”. That is victim-blaming.
      - brickening 3y ago
        [dead]
gloyoyo 3y ago
Exactly
emmelaich 3y ago
Doesn't matter, men are invited too. As a guy, I wouldn't go because it's clearly meant for women. But ... > ..."male allyship is necessary" to work toward overall inclusivity and also that federal law prohibited discrimination based on gender.
brickening 3y ago
I see the original error, back in 2022, as the event organizers opening the conference to people who call themselves 'non-binary', as this implicitly made the event centered around 'gender identities' rather than the female sex. As anyone, including men, can claim any 'gender identity', the organizers effectively stopped the conference being aimed towards women. The other problem with centering the conference around 'gender identity' is that this redefines 'woman' to be some sort of unfalsifiable inner abstract feeling of femininity. But this doesn't make sense in reality, given that this is not the basis on which women are discriminated against in tech or anywhere else. By trying to be more 'inclusive', all they've done is promote female exclusion - the exact opposite of what the conference was originally set up for, which was female empowerment and celebration of female achievement.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Jonovono 3y ago
  Amazingly said
  - dpkonofa 3y ago
    How did you get anything amazing out of that when they're essentially victim-blaming?
    - Jonovono 3y ago
      The blame doesn't solely fall with the individuals that did this. Our policies and culture around how we handle this is the bigger issue. This isn't some one off event, it's happening worldwide. OP touched on this
      - dpkonofa 3y ago
        Nonsense. The blame falls on the people being dishonest and malicious. Full stop.
- 3y ago

by mikece 3y ago

foldr 3y ago

The definition of 'woman' is irrelevant here, as the conference is not strictly limited to people who are women or non-binary: >Earlier in the week, the organization addressed calls to ban men from the conference by saying that "male allyship is necessary" to work toward overall inclusivity and also that federal law prohibited discrimination based on gender. So even if you made people get their vaginas out when they checked in, there is nothing to stop people who aren't women by any definition from being assholes and attending a conference that's clearly not intended to be a space primarily for them.

dpkonofa 3y ago
Thank you! This victim-blaming nonsense is so infuriating to see. As long as people are willing to be dishonest, this same thing can happen in any area where spaces are designated for certain people. The argument the parent is making is essentially akin to "maybe they should have changed the dress code if they didn't want people being raped" instead of blaming rapists.
- brickening 3y ago
  We can simultaneously both blame rapists and have effective safeguarding policy that minimizes the risk of rapists getting access to victims. As an example, prisons almost always have a policy of sex segregation, with separate estates for each sex. The female prison estate is designated solely for female prisoners, and the male estate solely for the males. This physical separation safeguards the female inmates from male inmates, many of whom are very dangerous and have already raped. In recent years, a handful of jurisdictions have experimented with allowing some male prisoners in the female prison estate, which resulted in sexual assaults and rapes of women prisoners, and even some pregnancies. The rapist men are to blame of course, but they were enabled in their crimes by a set of horrifying policy changes that put so many vulnerable women at a hugely increased risk. It's not victim-blaming to point this out and insist that this broken policy be changed.
  - dpkonofa 3y ago
    You literally just said “they were enabled in their crimes”. That is victim-blaming.
    - brickening 3y ago
      [dead]

gloyoyo 3y ago

Exactly

emmelaich 3y ago

Doesn't matter, men are invited too. As a guy, I wouldn't go because it's clearly meant for women. But ... > ..."male allyship is necessary" to work toward overall inclusivity and also that federal law prohibited discrimination based on gender.

brickening 3y ago

I see the original error, back in 2022, as the event organizers opening the conference to people who call themselves 'non-binary', as this implicitly made the event centered around 'gender identities' rather than the female sex. As anyone, including men, can claim any 'gender identity', the organizers effectively stopped the conference being aimed towards women. The other problem with centering the conference around 'gender identity' is that this redefines 'woman' to be some sort of unfalsifiable inner abstract feeling of femininity. But this doesn't make sense in reality, given that this is not the basis on which women are discriminated against in tech or anywhere else. By trying to be more 'inclusive', all they've done is promote female exclusion - the exact opposite of what the conference was originally set up for, which was female empowerment and celebration of female achievement.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Jonovono 3y ago
Amazingly said
- dpkonofa 3y ago
  How did you get anything amazing out of that when they're essentially victim-blaming?
  - Jonovono 3y ago
    The blame doesn't solely fall with the individuals that did this. Our policies and culture around how we handle this is the bigger issue. This isn't some one off event, it's happening worldwide. OP touched on this
    - dpkonofa 3y ago
      Nonsense. The blame falls on the people being dishonest and malicious. Full stop.
3y ago