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C'mon. You are telling people that build and maintain core infrastructure used on millions of Linux installations all around the world that they are fundamental

C'mon. You are telling people that build and maintain core infrastructure used on millions of Linux installations all around the world that they are fundamentally misunderstanding Linux. This is why I don't maintain free software, and God bless those who do.

apetresc 3y ago
If you look at the signees (especially the two or three that actually seem the most invested in this message, and responded to the discussion thread linked above), you will see that these are not the people building "core infrastructure" used by "millions". It's a random grab-bag of default Gnome applications, the kind most Linux users who are aware of alternatives immediately remove from distributions that ship it. "Random Gnome developers" as a group have been notorious for decades for not really gelling with the wider Linux ecosystem. Looking at the project maintained by the front-runner of this movement, it has had 5 total reported issues in the last year, none of which are related to theming, so I'm not sure I understand what the big support struggle they're chafing at is either.
- vinceguidry 3y ago
  > It's a random grab-bag of default Gnome applications, Default applications! On one of the two major desktop frameworks in Linux! Oh I'm sure what you're working on is so much more important.
Zambyte 3y ago
Do you actually disagree with any of the points I made? Or just the fact that I made those points to people who supposedly have positions of authority?
- vinceguidry 3y ago
  Yes, I do. But it's clear the words would be wasted when the perspectives are that far apart.
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    Then why did you reply? I didn't ask you.
    - vinceguidry 3y ago
      Everybody has a voice here, buddy. I'm exercising mine. You don't get to pick and choose who gets a say.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Zambyte 3y ago
        I'll be honest I misread your username before; I thought you were a random person responding to my question. That's why I responded like that. Still seems weird to not share your opinion...
        vinceguidry 3y ago
        When did I get to be 'not a random person' around here? Heh, I know I have a high karma but my HN glory days are long behind me. Anyway, since you asked: > If you don't want people to theme your software (or rather, you don't want your software to be themed by distribution maintainers), why not write your own license forbidding just that? No one will want to touch it with a 10 foot pole, but hey, you won't have distribution maintainers theming your software. This is just... Well let's just say it's you that doesn't understand free software. First off changing the license to deal with this is like solving a problem with your business by nuking your competitors from orbit. It's way way way too heavy-handed an approach. Second, I dunno if you've ever actually worked in software before, but the people churning out the features, in this case the themes, more often than not don't really have a say in what they're building, even in the case of open source. Opening a public conversation like this is exactly how you solve this kind of problem. It's a democratic commons. Talk it out. There's no one person you can just email and say, hey, this is hurting us, knock it off. You're basically just telling these people to shut up and take it. You don't care about their needs, or what they're going through every day. They make a website like this to stand up and be heard, and they hear your voice, hey, you over there, you're out of your lane, shut up and code. It's... an immature response. The kind of immaturity that makes me believe that explaining why past the most basic observation would be an exercise in pissing upstream.

apetresc 3y ago

If you look at the signees (especially the two or three that actually seem the most invested in this message, and responded to the discussion thread linked above), you will see that these are not the people building "core infrastructure" used by "millions". It's a random grab-bag of default Gnome applications, the kind most Linux users who are aware of alternatives immediately remove from distributions that ship it. "Random Gnome developers" as a group have been notorious for decades for not really gelling with the wider Linux ecosystem. Looking at the project maintained by the front-runner of this movement, it has had 5 total reported issues in the last year, none of which are related to theming, so I'm not sure I understand what the big support struggle they're chafing at is either.

vinceguidry 3y ago
> It's a random grab-bag of default Gnome applications, Default applications! On one of the two major desktop frameworks in Linux! Oh I'm sure what you're working on is so much more important.

Zambyte 3y ago

Do you actually disagree with any of the points I made? Or just the fact that I made those points to people who supposedly have positions of authority?

vinceguidry 3y ago
Yes, I do. But it's clear the words would be wasted when the perspectives are that far apart.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  Then why did you reply? I didn't ask you.
  - vinceguidry 3y ago
    Everybody has a voice here, buddy. I'm exercising mine. You don't get to pick and choose who gets a say.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      I'll be honest I misread your username before; I thought you were a random person responding to my question. That's why I responded like that. Still seems weird to not share your opinion...
      - vinceguidry 3y ago
        When did I get to be 'not a random person' around here? Heh, I know I have a high karma but my HN glory days are long behind me. Anyway, since you asked: > If you don't want people to theme your software (or rather, you don't want your software to be themed by distribution maintainers), why not write your own license forbidding just that? No one will want to touch it with a 10 foot pole, but hey, you won't have distribution maintainers theming your software. This is just... Well let's just say it's you that doesn't understand free software. First off changing the license to deal with this is like solving a problem with your business by nuking your competitors from orbit. It's way way way too heavy-handed an approach. Second, I dunno if you've ever actually worked in software before, but the people churning out the features, in this case the themes, more often than not don't really have a say in what they're building, even in the case of open source. Opening a public conversation like this is exactly how you solve this kind of problem. It's a democratic commons. Talk it out. There's no one person you can just email and say, hey, this is hurting us, knock it off. You're basically just telling these people to shut up and take it. You don't care about their needs, or what they're going through every day. They make a website like this to stand up and be heard, and they hear your voice, hey, you over there, you're out of your lane, shut up and code. It's... an immature response. The kind of immaturity that makes me believe that explaining why past the most basic observation would be an exercise in pissing upstream.