3 ms·

If the cost of owning and operating a car included paying for externalities like CO2 emissions it would already be unaffordable to the middle class. Internalizi

If the cost of owning and operating a car included paying for externalities like CO2 emissions it would already be unaffordable to the middle class. Internalizing those costs is only fair.

gottorf 3y ago
If the full costs of existing as a human being were internalized, nobody would be able to afford to live. Existence itself imposes a cost on the environment. Even Grok the caveman had to burn wood for warmth, releasing CO2 and particulates into the atmosphere. I think the better approach is Locke's "enough and as good" proviso.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Burning wood (certainly before things like medieval deforestation) isn't a cost on the environment. The carbon from firewood is already “in cycle”. Unlike the carbon that is millions of years old that we have dug up from the ground. A false equivalence.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    Burning wood is absolutely a cost on the environment; just ask anyone who grew up in homes heated by firewood. But of course, as you say, the scale is different. Should your example of medieval deforestation have been impermissible for environmental reasons, then? Where should the line be drawn? Who has the authority to draw that line? No (non-nuclear) renewable technology currently exists that can by itself meet the energy demands of developed world standards of living. I'm not sure if wind and solar alone can even meet a developing country's standard of living. I'd really like it if we could build a thousand new nuclear power plants, but of course, reality is often disappointing and we get things like Germany shutting down its nuclear reactors and burning more coal instead.
avgcorrection 3y ago
If companies would have to pay for externalities as well as the exploitation of the less developed world: capitalism wouldn't be “competitive”.

3 ms·

If the cost of owning and operating a car included paying for externalities like CO2 emissions it would already be unaffordable to the middle class. Internalizi

by jplrssn 3y ago

If the cost of owning and operating a car included paying for externalities like CO2 emissions it would already be unaffordable to the middle class. Internalizing those costs is only fair.

gottorf 3y ago
If the full costs of existing as a human being were internalized, nobody would be able to afford to live. Existence itself imposes a cost on the environment. Even Grok the caveman had to burn wood for warmth, releasing CO2 and particulates into the atmosphere. I think the better approach is Locke's "enough and as good" proviso.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Burning wood (certainly before things like medieval deforestation) isn't a cost on the environment. The carbon from firewood is already “in cycle”. Unlike the carbon that is millions of years old that we have dug up from the ground. A false equivalence.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    Burning wood is absolutely a cost on the environment; just ask anyone who grew up in homes heated by firewood. But of course, as you say, the scale is different. Should your example of medieval deforestation have been impermissible for environmental reasons, then? Where should the line be drawn? Who has the authority to draw that line? No (non-nuclear) renewable technology currently exists that can by itself meet the energy demands of developed world standards of living. I'm not sure if wind and solar alone can even meet a developing country's standard of living. I'd really like it if we could build a thousand new nuclear power plants, but of course, reality is often disappointing and we get things like Germany shutting down its nuclear reactors and burning more coal instead.
avgcorrection 3y ago
If companies would have to pay for externalities as well as the exploitation of the less developed world: capitalism wouldn't be “competitive”.