4 ms·

The thing that I don't get is that when I was growing up on Argentina, I never saw anything like that. We heard about the shootings and bomb threats in the US,

The thing that I don't get is that when I was growing up on Argentina, I never saw anything like that. We heard about the shootings and bomb threats in the US, but once a teacher got stabbed in an Argentinean school and was national news. And that was the biggest event in years. Why do these kind of things only seem to be prevalent on one country? Gun prevalence explains the medium of choise these past 25 years, and one thing that needs to be tackled, but there seems to be other factors at play as well.

tivert 3y ago
> Gun prevalence explains the medium of choise these past 25 years, and one thing that needs to be tackled, but there seems to be other factors at play as well. People blame guns exclusively, but I think the real causes are: 1. Some kind of societal dysfunction that's leading deeper levels of anger and isolation in some people. 2. Massive national advertising campaigns by the media reminding angry, isolated teenagers that shooting up their school is an option they have.
- omginternets 3y ago
  I have not seen #2. Enlighten me?
  - tivert 3y ago
    > I have not seen #2. Enlighten me? You have. It's all the wall-to-wall publicity the shootings get. #2 might have a connection to the popularization of 24-hour news channels, which experience a huge pressure to fill air time with something.
    - estebank 3y ago
      American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries?
      - omginternets 3y ago
        To be fair, in the European countries I've visited, the media coverage is less sensational, and less relentless. That said, I do agree the gp's explanation is simplistic. There's clearly some kind of quest for transcendence involved in school shootings (not unlike e.g. Islamic terrorism); recognition for the act is definitely one element of that, but I think there's got to be more.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        To some degree it might. There are some instances of school attacks in other countries. I would guess that socioeconomic factors are a main driver in lower school violence levels in other countries. Even within the US, socioeconomic factors are main factors in localized variances. I would also guess that media coverage is much different in other countries, where the event is reported without being sensationalized and without constant coverage for days or weeks on end.
      - tivert 3y ago
        > American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries? I doubt they're covered to the same degree as in America (e.g. CNN reiterating every detail, over and over, for days). I don't think America would have the school shooting problem is has if they were covered to the same degree as, say, Indian gang rapes are covered.
- krapp 3y ago
  People don't blame guns exclusively, but it's obvious to anyone (except gun owners) that the scale of gun violence and ease of access to firearms are related, so guns are part of the problem. Unfortunately they are a part of the problem which is existentially impossible to address in any effective way, because any gun control or regulation which could effectively lower gun crime would be unconstitutional in the US, so even bringing it up is futile. >1. Some kind of social dysfunction that's leading deeper levels of anger and isolation in some people. This happens everywhere. You should ask yourself why school shootings aren't also a problem everywhere. >2. Massive national advertising campaigns by the media reminding angry, isolated teenagers that shooting up their school is an option they have. Maybe you should ask yourself why it's an option they have.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > This happens everywhere. You should ask yourself why school shootings aren't also a problem everywhere. Because people in those other places have fewer rights. Taking away rights and adding restrictions are a time-tested solution to many social problems. America should try it. Get rid of the First and Second Amendments, and you solve school shootings, extremism, Trump, the threat to democracy, all in one blow. The problem isn't really that society fucks people up and doesn't bother to help them, the problem is those people aren't impotent enough.
    - krapp 3y ago
      The fact that you consider shooting up schools to be a right and equate a lack of guns with impotence demonstrates why it's impossible to have rational discussion on this topic. The degree to which gun violence itself fucks people up in the US doesn't even occur to you. Thanks for playing to type, I guess.
      - tivert 3y ago
        > The fact that you consider shooting up schools to be a right... I don't understand how anyone could manage to misread my comment that badly.
  - 3y ago
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
It's a social contagion thing. A place or country that has never had such a thing happen might well go for decades with it continuing to "not happen". But if it starts happening, you get copy cat crimes. People who were apparently too dim to think it up on their own are inspired by the first criminal act, and repeat it. These secondary acts inspire yet more of the same. If the rate gets high enough (likely passed that threshold decades ago), it becomes self-sustaining. It might even be how some riots boil up out of nowhere. Tends to happen alot with teen suicides too.
- estebank 3y ago
  American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries?
  - Auracle 3y ago
    They might be news, but I doubt that cover each shooting for weeks like they do here. The media practically makes some of the shooters into celebrities.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    The mechanisms are poorly understood, as far as I know.
SirMaster 3y ago
I don't think it's "Gun prevalence" per say. Decades ago, guns were even allowed in schools. As in, students could bring a gun to keep in their vehicle or even sometimes locker for use in after school activities like a hunters safety course, or various competitive shooting leagues.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Some schools still have shooting teams on school grounds. It was less than 20 years ago I knew students who would leave guns in their cars to later go hunting. It wasn't allowed, but nobody said anything and it was never a problem. I assume this still happens in some areas today.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    Yep. My daughter is a junior in high school, and on the trap team. She takes her cased shotgun to school with her once a week.
themagician 3y ago
There is an anger in the US that a lot of people don't understand, including most Americans (and myself). It is very, very multifaceted. There is no single cause. Everything from politics to car culture and the way our cities are designed promote a strange kind of anger. When I travel abroad, I don't see this… like, hardly at all.
didntcheck 3y ago
Similar experience in the UK. I'd never even heard of a "lockdown" until I read about them on the American internet. Though apparrently they do exist here now. Our gates were also usually wide open, and you could then enter the building by numerous doors (apparently there was no gate or fence at all until a few years before I started). And definitely no security personnel There is of course the notable exception of the Dunblane massacre in 1996, which effectively lead to a ban on handguns. AFAIK we haven't had any school shootings since then

tivert 3y ago

> Gun prevalence explains the medium of choise these past 25 years, and one thing that needs to be tackled, but there seems to be other factors at play as well. People blame guns exclusively, but I think the real causes are: 1. Some kind of societal dysfunction that's leading deeper levels of anger and isolation in some people. 2. Massive national advertising campaigns by the media reminding angry, isolated teenagers that shooting up their school is an option they have.

omginternets 3y ago
I have not seen #2. Enlighten me?
- tivert 3y ago
  > I have not seen #2. Enlighten me? You have. It's all the wall-to-wall publicity the shootings get. #2 might have a connection to the popularization of 24-hour news channels, which experience a huge pressure to fill air time with something.
  - estebank 3y ago
    American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries?
    - omginternets 3y ago
      To be fair, in the European countries I've visited, the media coverage is less sensational, and less relentless. That said, I do agree the gp's explanation is simplistic. There's clearly some kind of quest for transcendence involved in school shootings (not unlike e.g. Islamic terrorism); recognition for the act is definitely one element of that, but I think there's got to be more.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      To some degree it might. There are some instances of school attacks in other countries. I would guess that socioeconomic factors are a main driver in lower school violence levels in other countries. Even within the US, socioeconomic factors are main factors in localized variances. I would also guess that media coverage is much different in other countries, where the event is reported without being sensationalized and without constant coverage for days or weeks on end.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries? I doubt they're covered to the same degree as in America (e.g. CNN reiterating every detail, over and over, for days). I don't think America would have the school shooting problem is has if they were covered to the same degree as, say, Indian gang rapes are covered.
krapp 3y ago
People don't blame guns exclusively, but it's obvious to anyone (except gun owners) that the scale of gun violence and ease of access to firearms are related, so guns are part of the problem. Unfortunately they are a part of the problem which is existentially impossible to address in any effective way, because any gun control or regulation which could effectively lower gun crime would be unconstitutional in the US, so even bringing it up is futile. >1. Some kind of social dysfunction that's leading deeper levels of anger and isolation in some people. This happens everywhere. You should ask yourself why school shootings aren't also a problem everywhere. >2. Massive national advertising campaigns by the media reminding angry, isolated teenagers that shooting up their school is an option they have. Maybe you should ask yourself why it's an option they have.
- tivert 3y ago
  > This happens everywhere. You should ask yourself why school shootings aren't also a problem everywhere. Because people in those other places have fewer rights. Taking away rights and adding restrictions are a time-tested solution to many social problems. America should try it. Get rid of the First and Second Amendments, and you solve school shootings, extremism, Trump, the threat to democracy, all in one blow. The problem isn't really that society fucks people up and doesn't bother to help them, the problem is those people aren't impotent enough.
  - krapp 3y ago
    The fact that you consider shooting up schools to be a right and equate a lack of guns with impotence demonstrates why it's impossible to have rational discussion on this topic. The degree to which gun violence itself fucks people up in the US doesn't even occur to you. Thanks for playing to type, I guess.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > The fact that you consider shooting up schools to be a right... I don't understand how anyone could manage to misread my comment that badly.
- 3y ago

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

It's a social contagion thing. A place or country that has never had such a thing happen might well go for decades with it continuing to "not happen". But if it starts happening, you get copy cat crimes. People who were apparently too dim to think it up on their own are inspired by the first criminal act, and repeat it. These secondary acts inspire yet more of the same. If the rate gets high enough (likely passed that threshold decades ago), it becomes self-sustaining. It might even be how some riots boil up out of nowhere. Tends to happen alot with teen suicides too.

estebank 3y ago
American school shootings are news across the world. Why doesn that copy cat effect affect other countries?
- Auracle 3y ago
  They might be news, but I doubt that cover each shooting for weeks like they do here. The media practically makes some of the shooters into celebrities.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  The mechanisms are poorly understood, as far as I know.

SirMaster 3y ago

I don't think it's "Gun prevalence" per say. Decades ago, guns were even allowed in schools. As in, students could bring a gun to keep in their vehicle or even sometimes locker for use in after school activities like a hunters safety course, or various competitive shooting leagues.

giantg2 3y ago
Some schools still have shooting teams on school grounds. It was less than 20 years ago I knew students who would leave guns in their cars to later go hunting. It wasn't allowed, but nobody said anything and it was never a problem. I assume this still happens in some areas today.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  Yep. My daughter is a junior in high school, and on the trap team. She takes her cased shotgun to school with her once a week.

themagician 3y ago

There is an anger in the US that a lot of people don't understand, including most Americans (and myself). It is very, very multifaceted. There is no single cause. Everything from politics to car culture and the way our cities are designed promote a strange kind of anger. When I travel abroad, I don't see this… like, hardly at all.

didntcheck 3y ago

Similar experience in the UK. I'd never even heard of a "lockdown" until I read about them on the American internet. Though apparrently they do exist here now. Our gates were also usually wide open, and you could then enter the building by numerous doors (apparently there was no gate or fence at all until a few years before I started). And definitely no security personnel There is of course the notable exception of the Dunblane massacre in 1996, which effectively lead to a ban on handguns. AFAIK we haven't had any school shootings since then