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How about we charge how much it will cost to remove debris... This will kill negligent operators as well as spur investment in removal research.

londons_explore 3y ago
This debris is probably actually pretty cheap to remove by chance. The orbit it is in is perfectly between geostationary and the disposal orbit. That means any other satellite who is travelling from one orbit to the other can stop off on-route for no fuel or time cost. 'grabbing' a satellite is fairly easy too. Even a fridge magnet would be enough to grab this satellite - since even tiny forces over many hours are enough in space. I therefore suspect that it would be possible to complete this disposal with a satellite already on orbit - ie. not specially designed for the purpose, and using very little additional fuel - perhaps some operational satellites even have enough extra in reserve.
- creaturemachine 3y ago
  Are you really suggesting some satellite drop whatever its doing, break its orbit to meet up with this thing and attempt to push it, all while risking irreparable damage? These things are made for a lonely existence in space, so they don't have bumpers or cameras or little fridge magnets for docking with other spacecraft.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    No - I'm suggesting that a satellite already at the end of its life, and heading to the graveyard orbit, go push it. Damage is unlikely - collision speeds would be measured in millimeters per second, and forces in millinewtons. For position accuracy, it would probably require a camera onboard - but most satellites already have a star tracker that includes a capable camera. The main risk is that the satellites touch at the 'wrong angle' or blocking an attitude control thruster. That would immobilize both of them.
    - Etherlord87 3y ago
      I'd say the biggest risk is that upon one of the pushes of one satellite toward the other, the propulsion of an old satellite fails, keeps accelerating and causes a crash.
    - krisoft 3y ago
      Your suggestion does not comport with reality. > collision speeds would be measured in millimeters per second, and forces in millinewtons. What satellite ending their end of life, and already in orbit do you suggest are capable of such delicate manoeuvring? This is a very delicate task you are describing, and most satellites are simply not designed for it. > The main risk is that the satellites touch at the 'wrong angle' or blocking an attitude control thruster. If someone tries this, the most likely outcome is that the satelites wizz by each other without ever touching. If you somehow manage to aim the "pushing" satellite accurately enough at the "stranded" satellite they would most likely collide at anything from a few hundred meter/s to a few of km/s depending on the orbital arrangements.
      - msandford 3y ago
        I don't think you understand what geostationary orbit is. They all have to be going the same direction (with the Earth's rotation) or else it isn't stationary (not moving) over the geo (earth). As a result I think you're misunderstanding what the orbital dynamics would be.
        krisoft 3y ago
        > I don't think you understand what geostationary orbit is. I do understand what geostationary orbit is. The commenter I was responding to said "any other satellite who is travelling from one orbit to the other can stop off on-route for no fuel or time cost". If they wanted to only talk about geo sats they should have said that. But sure, let's think about using a geo sat to fly this intercept. Let's just pick Echostar-8 as a concrete example. It is at 6.4 degree inclination while Echostart-7 is at 1.5 degree. So you will at best have a glancing blow between these two.
      - 3y ago

londons_explore 3y ago

This debris is probably actually pretty cheap to remove by chance. The orbit it is in is perfectly between geostationary and the disposal orbit. That means any other satellite who is travelling from one orbit to the other can stop off on-route for no fuel or time cost. 'grabbing' a satellite is fairly easy too. Even a fridge magnet would be enough to grab this satellite - since even tiny forces over many hours are enough in space. I therefore suspect that it would be possible to complete this disposal with a satellite already on orbit - ie. not specially designed for the purpose, and using very little additional fuel - perhaps some operational satellites even have enough extra in reserve.

creaturemachine 3y ago
Are you really suggesting some satellite drop whatever its doing, break its orbit to meet up with this thing and attempt to push it, all while risking irreparable damage? These things are made for a lonely existence in space, so they don't have bumpers or cameras or little fridge magnets for docking with other spacecraft.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  No - I'm suggesting that a satellite already at the end of its life, and heading to the graveyard orbit, go push it. Damage is unlikely - collision speeds would be measured in millimeters per second, and forces in millinewtons. For position accuracy, it would probably require a camera onboard - but most satellites already have a star tracker that includes a capable camera. The main risk is that the satellites touch at the 'wrong angle' or blocking an attitude control thruster. That would immobilize both of them.
  - Etherlord87 3y ago
    I'd say the biggest risk is that upon one of the pushes of one satellite toward the other, the propulsion of an old satellite fails, keeps accelerating and causes a crash.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    Your suggestion does not comport with reality. > collision speeds would be measured in millimeters per second, and forces in millinewtons. What satellite ending their end of life, and already in orbit do you suggest are capable of such delicate manoeuvring? This is a very delicate task you are describing, and most satellites are simply not designed for it. > The main risk is that the satellites touch at the 'wrong angle' or blocking an attitude control thruster. If someone tries this, the most likely outcome is that the satelites wizz by each other without ever touching. If you somehow manage to aim the "pushing" satellite accurately enough at the "stranded" satellite they would most likely collide at anything from a few hundred meter/s to a few of km/s depending on the orbital arrangements.
    - msandford 3y ago
      I don't think you understand what geostationary orbit is. They all have to be going the same direction (with the Earth's rotation) or else it isn't stationary (not moving) over the geo (earth). As a result I think you're misunderstanding what the orbital dynamics would be.
      - krisoft 3y ago
        > I don't think you understand what geostationary orbit is. I do understand what geostationary orbit is. The commenter I was responding to said "any other satellite who is travelling from one orbit to the other can stop off on-route for no fuel or time cost". If they wanted to only talk about geo sats they should have said that. But sure, let's think about using a geo sat to fly this intercept. Let's just pick Echostar-8 as a concrete example. It is at 6.4 degree inclination while Echostart-7 is at 1.5 degree. So you will at best have a glancing blow between these two.
    - 3y ago