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As far as the Bosnian thing goes, this is from the wiki article you linked: > Direct study of the site by geologists, archaeologists, and other scientists has

As far as the Bosnian thing goes, this is from the wiki article you linked: > Direct study of the site by geologists, archaeologists, and other scientists has demonstrated that the hills are natural formations known as flatirons, and that there is no evidence that they were shaped by human construction.The European Association of Archaeologists has condemned the so-called 'Bosnian pyramids' as a "cruel hoax"; along with various other scholars they are also concerned about damage being done to genuine archaeological and paleontological sites: a medieval Bosnian castle, Roman fortifications, and some even more ancient remains. Osmanagić initiated excavations in 2006 and has since reshaped one of the hills, making it look like a stepped pyramid.The academic community has called for the government to end funding of excavations and disruption of the site because of the damage to true archaeological resources.

boffinAudio 3y ago
The jury is still out - there are studies which refute this original geological survey as well, I guess they just haven't made it to Wikipedia yet... either way until we start excavations again, we won't have definitive proof that these are natural structures. Its obviously a politically charged subject ..
- notahacker 3y ago
  I'm sure a mountebank promoting it as a tourist attraction is capable of paying for "studies" Not all studies are as reliable as others though. HNers shouldn't really have too much difficulty establishing whether an origin theory conceived by geologists familiar with dozens of similar sites or one conceived by someone talking about ancient Illyrians making a "cosmic internet" is more likely to be correct...
  - keepamovin 3y ago
    > HNers shouldn't really ... True, but at the same time we don't know that much about what happened before the last ice age. And faced with that ignorance you have to keep an open mind, that's what HN people should do, or not have much trouble doing! Put it another way, if we had a 3000 year ice age start tomorrow, that was ended with a comet impact that melted the ice in a couple of months with biblical flooding (or any of a host of other possible apocalypses), how confident would you be that remnants of our civilization would be traceable 15,000 years hence? I'm sure there'd be traces but how confident would we be interpreting them correctly? If we were being intellectually honest about such interpretations. I'd say there'd be quite a lot of error bars. If you don't already, just assume there's other civilizations out there, for a minute. If they'd utilized the Earth in the past as a way station, outpost, refugee spot, or even holiday home or whatever, and built some (relative to the total land area of all human dwellings on Earth now) small scale installations here, but were not "humans" at all, and this happened at multiple points in the last 250 million years, how well do you feel you'd interpret that evidence, today? I think it's likely that people look at it, look at the seeming absence of non-humans just walking around, and think "We did this. It was us, in the past." But Earth's history is long, and we're a tiny part of it. Why project our present level of knowledge, impressive tho it is, onto a fantasy of insight into the One True Story of the entirety of Earth's history? I don't think we can say that if we're being intellectually honest, and HN people should aspire to that, I think. Even from this position of ignorance it's entirely possible that other civilizations built structures on Earth in the distant past, and that only their megalithic foundations or buildings survived, owing to Earth's "active" surface geology, and the passage of time. You cannot say how probable it is from a position of ignorance, but you must admit that it's possible. Heck, maybe some of those dudes flying around the sky are just coming back to check, "Hey, didn't we have a house here half a million years ago? With a nice view of the ocean. Man, those were the days!" haha :)
    - eigenket 3y ago
      All those things are indeed possible, and keeping an open mind is generally positive. That said in the specific case of the formations in Bosnia, reputable geologists have investigated them, and have said that they are well-understood natural formations. The flatirons in Bosnia are no more human structures than the ones in Colorado or Texas. A smart person once said: if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out, and another smart person wrote a song with that name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w
      - keepamovin 3y ago
        Sure, I wasn't referring specifically to Bosnia mentioned here: I don't know much about that case really, I haven't deeply looked at it, at least recently, and I don't know. I'm glad to see you are in favor of keeping an open mind, but saddened to see you would want to put limits on your intellectual exploration! I generally think that's a poor idea. Many reasons, here's two: 1) what better adventure is there? How fun it is to explore curiously some out there possibilities outside of what we know! You might just discover something incredible, and true. It may even be useful! Onward! Haha :) 2) It's kind of arrogant to think, 'well I can't be "too open" otherwise I might consider some things that are wrong.' To me that reeks of orthodoxy and this idea that humans can proscribe what is possible for the universe, rather than standing in awe of it and in humility at our ignorance of all the things we don't know. I think that humility, ignorance and awe is ultimately liberating, and the intellectually honest thing to do, and not just honest, but the most useful position to take, the scientifically ignorant one. I see your "smart person", and I raise you one, haha! :) One smart person recently said: "Science is nothing more than the invention of ignorance." I encourage you to meditate deeply upon that. I'll go watch your youtube video now! :) edit: Oh Tim Minchin is often very funny, but I find him off here. Out of touch and a little flat. I also like George Carlin, I recommend you check him out if you haven't. I think comedians can offer us insights, but in general they should not be used as guides as to what's possible, nor as proscribers of your intellectual curiosity. If you let them do that, you're basically subscribing to a kind of orthodoxy that many comedians are by definition against, being free, lateral thinkers in many (but perhaps not all!) ways. The sad thing about Minchin's stance above is he couches it in this irrefutable way, when it's really not. A lot of the things he tries to make out, as unsubstantiated are in fact very substantiated. But sadly it feels as if you would only seek to mock those things, as Minchin tries to, so perhaps you're not the best one to have that discussion with now, I guess? Haha :) I also wonder if Minchin is not subtly lampooning the stance he merely pretends to embody there? It would be in character for him. And the way he rapid-fires the overly formal verbiage, seems to suggest satire, even mockery of it. At least I think we should remain open to the possibility that's what he's doing! Or at the very least perhaps not make much of the stance of someone whose job it is as court jester to basically satirize everything! :) hahahaha But thank you for reminding me of him. I'm a fan of that duet he did with Missy Higgins. You should check that out!
- n4r9 3y ago
  Could you provide a link to these other studies please?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

boffinAudio 3y ago

The jury is still out - there are studies which refute this original geological survey as well, I guess they just haven't made it to Wikipedia yet... either way until we start excavations again, we won't have definitive proof that these are natural structures. Its obviously a politically charged subject ..

notahacker 3y ago
I'm sure a mountebank promoting it as a tourist attraction is capable of paying for "studies" Not all studies are as reliable as others though. HNers shouldn't really have too much difficulty establishing whether an origin theory conceived by geologists familiar with dozens of similar sites or one conceived by someone talking about ancient Illyrians making a "cosmic internet" is more likely to be correct...
- keepamovin 3y ago
  > HNers shouldn't really ... True, but at the same time we don't know that much about what happened before the last ice age. And faced with that ignorance you have to keep an open mind, that's what HN people should do, or not have much trouble doing! Put it another way, if we had a 3000 year ice age start tomorrow, that was ended with a comet impact that melted the ice in a couple of months with biblical flooding (or any of a host of other possible apocalypses), how confident would you be that remnants of our civilization would be traceable 15,000 years hence? I'm sure there'd be traces but how confident would we be interpreting them correctly? If we were being intellectually honest about such interpretations. I'd say there'd be quite a lot of error bars. If you don't already, just assume there's other civilizations out there, for a minute. If they'd utilized the Earth in the past as a way station, outpost, refugee spot, or even holiday home or whatever, and built some (relative to the total land area of all human dwellings on Earth now) small scale installations here, but were not "humans" at all, and this happened at multiple points in the last 250 million years, how well do you feel you'd interpret that evidence, today? I think it's likely that people look at it, look at the seeming absence of non-humans just walking around, and think "We did this. It was us, in the past." But Earth's history is long, and we're a tiny part of it. Why project our present level of knowledge, impressive tho it is, onto a fantasy of insight into the One True Story of the entirety of Earth's history? I don't think we can say that if we're being intellectually honest, and HN people should aspire to that, I think. Even from this position of ignorance it's entirely possible that other civilizations built structures on Earth in the distant past, and that only their megalithic foundations or buildings survived, owing to Earth's "active" surface geology, and the passage of time. You cannot say how probable it is from a position of ignorance, but you must admit that it's possible. Heck, maybe some of those dudes flying around the sky are just coming back to check, "Hey, didn't we have a house here half a million years ago? With a nice view of the ocean. Man, those were the days!" haha :)
  - eigenket 3y ago
    All those things are indeed possible, and keeping an open mind is generally positive. That said in the specific case of the formations in Bosnia, reputable geologists have investigated them, and have said that they are well-understood natural formations. The flatirons in Bosnia are no more human structures than the ones in Colorado or Texas. A smart person once said: if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out, and another smart person wrote a song with that name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w
    - keepamovin 3y ago
      Sure, I wasn't referring specifically to Bosnia mentioned here: I don't know much about that case really, I haven't deeply looked at it, at least recently, and I don't know. I'm glad to see you are in favor of keeping an open mind, but saddened to see you would want to put limits on your intellectual exploration! I generally think that's a poor idea. Many reasons, here's two: 1) what better adventure is there? How fun it is to explore curiously some out there possibilities outside of what we know! You might just discover something incredible, and true. It may even be useful! Onward! Haha :) 2) It's kind of arrogant to think, 'well I can't be "too open" otherwise I might consider some things that are wrong.' To me that reeks of orthodoxy and this idea that humans can proscribe what is possible for the universe, rather than standing in awe of it and in humility at our ignorance of all the things we don't know. I think that humility, ignorance and awe is ultimately liberating, and the intellectually honest thing to do, and not just honest, but the most useful position to take, the scientifically ignorant one. I see your "smart person", and I raise you one, haha! :) One smart person recently said: "Science is nothing more than the invention of ignorance." I encourage you to meditate deeply upon that. I'll go watch your youtube video now! :) edit: Oh Tim Minchin is often very funny, but I find him off here. Out of touch and a little flat. I also like George Carlin, I recommend you check him out if you haven't. I think comedians can offer us insights, but in general they should not be used as guides as to what's possible, nor as proscribers of your intellectual curiosity. If you let them do that, you're basically subscribing to a kind of orthodoxy that many comedians are by definition against, being free, lateral thinkers in many (but perhaps not all!) ways. The sad thing about Minchin's stance above is he couches it in this irrefutable way, when it's really not. A lot of the things he tries to make out, as unsubstantiated are in fact very substantiated. But sadly it feels as if you would only seek to mock those things, as Minchin tries to, so perhaps you're not the best one to have that discussion with now, I guess? Haha :) I also wonder if Minchin is not subtly lampooning the stance he merely pretends to embody there? It would be in character for him. And the way he rapid-fires the overly formal verbiage, seems to suggest satire, even mockery of it. At least I think we should remain open to the possibility that's what he's doing! Or at the very least perhaps not make much of the stance of someone whose job it is as court jester to basically satirize everything! :) hahahaha But thank you for reminding me of him. I'm a fan of that duet he did with Missy Higgins. You should check that out!
n4r9 3y ago
Could you provide a link to these other studies please?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]