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The mainstream is and was _enamored_ with Ancient Greece. Our Western culture made Ancient Greek into the vocabulary root of our sciences. We have a lineage o

The mainstream is and was _enamored_ with Ancient Greece. Our Western culture made Ancient Greek into the vocabulary root of our sciences. We have a lineage of philosophy from Ancient Greece to the 19th century. Only in the 19th century with archeology (again a neo-word made from Ancient Greek roots – it suggests to the mainstream that the Ancient Greek had a concept of archaeology, which they obviously didn’t have) we saw the truth: History goes thousands of years deeper, the origin of everything is thousands of years older. Only 30 years ago the capital city of Hattuša was discovered; and only in the 20th century we gained an understanding of the multiple levels of the historic city of Troy. Only recently we understand that "it didn’t start with Ancient Greece", but the mainstream still follows the tradition of medieval grammar schools and doesn’t look beyond Ancient Greece.

nequo 3y ago
The Greek still did something remarkable that to my knowledge we don’t have record of from before: they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry. They also sentenced some of their free thinkers to death for not worshipping the gods but that’s a separate issue.
- goodbyesf 3y ago
  > they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry. Culture of free thinking? Socrates, the most iconic free thinker of all time was forced to commit suicide by the greeks. So much for a culture of free thinking. > They also sentenced some of their free thinkers to death for not worshipping the gods but that’s a separate issue. It isn't. It directly contradicts and refutes your assertion.
  - nequo 3y ago
    > Socrates, the most iconic free thinker of all time was forced to commit suicide by the greeks. See my last sentence. > It directly contradicts and refutes your assertion. Maybe Greek society was not a homogeneous mass, and some parts of it nurtured free thinking while others reacted against it?
    - goodbyesf 3y ago
      > Maybe Greek society was not a homogeneous mass, and some parts of it nurtured free thinking while others reacted against it? So then your assertion was incorrect: 'they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry.' They didn't start anything? Some of them did? What are you even saying then? It's idiot's logic to claim that greeks nurtured free thinkers while admitting they killed free thinkers. Instead of digging yourself a bigger hole, just admit you were wrong.
      - nequo 3y ago
        Hey, I don’t know what’s happening in your life but all of your recent comments seem bitter and abrasive. I hope that you get to take a break in some way.
gen220 3y ago
Is it not a simpler explanation that Greece simply did a better job of disseminating its own literature than prior cultures? My understanding is that the “through line” of modern scientific progress begins in Greece because that’s where “trivially-legible to contemporary scholars” written history began. Like, we always knew that it didn’t start with Ancient Greece (the Greeks themselves mention this), but because abundant primary sources prior to Ancient Greece don’t exist, there isn’t much we can do other than light a candle for their sake and use its light to read their thoughts as filtered through Plato, etc.
- digging 3y ago
  > Is it not a simpler explanation that Greece simply did a better job of disseminating its own literature than prior cultures? That's a simpler explanation but it's not necessarily right. What we can say for sure is that Greek thought has been easier for Western scientists and pseudo-scientists to learn. Availability and language are parts of that for sure. Geography is, too - it's easier for Europeans to excavate Europe than Iran. But what does it mean to say "the Greeks" disseminated their knowledge better when virtually all of what we have comes from Roman citizens living centuries later?
  - gen220 3y ago
    > But what does it mean to say "the Greeks" disseminated their knowledge better when virtually all of what we have comes from Roman citizens living centuries later? That Greek knowledge and culture survived the collapse of their prominence? Similar to the Romans after them and Babylonians before them. Greek had been a lingua franca in the major ports of future empires for centuries [1], and Greek remained a spoken and written language in the Byzantine empire (the same was not true of ancient Egyptian or Babylonian – which were supplanted by Greek or other Aramaic languages during the hellenistic period). I think at least as much credit is owed to the inheritors of Greek culture (Romans, Byzantines, the various Arabic empires), for preserving source material and references. But I think Greece was seen as the original "filter" for civilization because it was both "successful" and comparatively extroverted to the great civilizations that came before. Basically, it's what you said in your middle paragraph – wide availability, accessibility of language and culture. In other words, "better dissemination". :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonisation
User23 3y ago
The Ancient Greeks didn't even think it started with Ancient Greece. Plato believed in Atlantis for example.
mcphage 3y ago
> suggests to the mainstream that the Ancient Greek had a concept of archaeology, which they obviously didn’t have Why is that obvious? The ancient Egyptians & Mesopotamians had a concept of archaeology, why not the Greeks?

nequo 3y ago

The Greek still did something remarkable that to my knowledge we don’t have record of from before: they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry. They also sentenced some of their free thinkers to death for not worshipping the gods but that’s a separate issue.

goodbyesf 3y ago
> they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry. Culture of free thinking? Socrates, the most iconic free thinker of all time was forced to commit suicide by the greeks. So much for a culture of free thinking. > They also sentenced some of their free thinkers to death for not worshipping the gods but that’s a separate issue. It isn't. It directly contradicts and refutes your assertion.
- nequo 3y ago
  > Socrates, the most iconic free thinker of all time was forced to commit suicide by the greeks. See my last sentence. > It directly contradicts and refutes your assertion. Maybe Greek society was not a homogeneous mass, and some parts of it nurtured free thinking while others reacted against it?
  - goodbyesf 3y ago
    > Maybe Greek society was not a homogeneous mass, and some parts of it nurtured free thinking while others reacted against it? So then your assertion was incorrect: 'they started a culture of free thinking that grew into philosophy, logic, and scientific inquiry.' They didn't start anything? Some of them did? What are you even saying then? It's idiot's logic to claim that greeks nurtured free thinkers while admitting they killed free thinkers. Instead of digging yourself a bigger hole, just admit you were wrong.
    - nequo 3y ago
      Hey, I don’t know what’s happening in your life but all of your recent comments seem bitter and abrasive. I hope that you get to take a break in some way.

gen220 3y ago

Is it not a simpler explanation that Greece simply did a better job of disseminating its own literature than prior cultures? My understanding is that the “through line” of modern scientific progress begins in Greece because that’s where “trivially-legible to contemporary scholars” written history began. Like, we always knew that it didn’t start with Ancient Greece (the Greeks themselves mention this), but because abundant primary sources prior to Ancient Greece don’t exist, there isn’t much we can do other than light a candle for their sake and use its light to read their thoughts as filtered through Plato, etc.

digging 3y ago
> Is it not a simpler explanation that Greece simply did a better job of disseminating its own literature than prior cultures? That's a simpler explanation but it's not necessarily right. What we can say for sure is that Greek thought has been easier for Western scientists and pseudo-scientists to learn. Availability and language are parts of that for sure. Geography is, too - it's easier for Europeans to excavate Europe than Iran. But what does it mean to say "the Greeks" disseminated their knowledge better when virtually all of what we have comes from Roman citizens living centuries later?
- gen220 3y ago
  > But what does it mean to say "the Greeks" disseminated their knowledge better when virtually all of what we have comes from Roman citizens living centuries later? That Greek knowledge and culture survived the collapse of their prominence? Similar to the Romans after them and Babylonians before them. Greek had been a lingua franca in the major ports of future empires for centuries [1], and Greek remained a spoken and written language in the Byzantine empire (the same was not true of ancient Egyptian or Babylonian – which were supplanted by Greek or other Aramaic languages during the hellenistic period). I think at least as much credit is owed to the inheritors of Greek culture (Romans, Byzantines, the various Arabic empires), for preserving source material and references. But I think Greece was seen as the original "filter" for civilization because it was both "successful" and comparatively extroverted to the great civilizations that came before. Basically, it's what you said in your middle paragraph – wide availability, accessibility of language and culture. In other words, "better dissemination". :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_colonisation

User23 3y ago

The Ancient Greeks didn't even think it started with Ancient Greece. Plato believed in Atlantis for example.

mcphage 3y ago

> suggests to the mainstream that the Ancient Greek had a concept of archaeology, which they obviously didn’t have Why is that obvious? The ancient Egyptians & Mesopotamians had a concept of archaeology, why not the Greeks?