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Pythagoras was specifically known for accumulating the wisdom of diverse cultures—supposedly he met Thales, was initiated as Egyptian priest in Hermopolis, spen
by dr_dshiv 3y ago
Pythagoras was specifically known for accumulating the wisdom of diverse cultures—supposedly he met Thales, was initiated as Egyptian priest in Hermopolis, spent time in Babylon after being captured, and was initiated into every mystery cult he could. And as a boy on his home island of Samos, he would have been exposed to the building of the largest stone temple in Ancient Greece (to Hera) and the incredible engineering feat of the tunnel of Eupalinos.
Iamblichus’s “life of Pythagoras” [1] is worth a read as he had access to all the old sources now lost. The relationship between math and spirituality was very strong back then!
There are lots of fun stories that may be true but no one will ever know. In Diogenes Laertius’ “Lives of the Philosophers,” it is claimed that when Pythagoras made his discovery of what we call the Pythagorean theorem, he sacrificed 100 oxen (a hecatomb) [1]. As noted by Charles Dodgson (Lewis Carrol), “that would produce an inconvenient supply of meat” [3], especially for a vegetarian. Iamblichus, on the other hand, claims it was a single ox — and made of flour!
[1] Guthrie, K. S., & Fideler, D. R. (Eds.). (1987). The Pythagorean sourcebook and library: an anthology of ancient writings which relate to Pythagoras and Pythagorean philosophy. Red Wheel/Weiser.
[2] “he sacrificed a hecatomb, when he had discovered that the square of the hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle was equal to the squares of the sides containing the right angle.” DL, found in [1]
[3] Maor, E. (2019). The Pythagorean theorem: a 4,000-year history. Princeton University Press.
- snerc 3y ago"The relationship between math and spirituality was very strong back then!" According to those whose communication ended up being indelible. I wonder how we'll be able to preserve digital info for millennia?
- somenameforme 3y agoOh how can you skip the most fun tale of them all. [1] Its authenticity is dubious, but there's probably at least parts of truth in it. In a nutshell, Pythagoras started a cult based around numbers, and the pseudo-divine purity of rational numbers - of which everything can be represented. Hippasus, a member of said cult, however managed to compellingly demonstrate that the square root of 2 could not be a rational number. Pythagorus tried to swear him to silence. When that did no twork, he had him killed. Over the square root of 2. [1] - https://sciencefocus.ust.hk/the-square-root-of-two-at-the-cost-of-a-life https://sciencefocus.ust.hk/the-square-root-of-two-at-the-co...
- dmoo 3y agoThat seems irrational…
- seasox 3y agoAt least he kept his cult real
- scarmig 3y agoIt seems pretty limiting for a cult, though. You can't count all the members he left out of it.
- continuitylimit 3y agowell, if this cult doesn’t work out for you there is always reddit.com with less “limitations” ..
- mjhay 3y agoSounds like a complex situation.
- mayd 3y agoMost would call it surreal.
- selcuka 3y agoI believe the whole story is imaginary.
- p-e-w 3y ago> supposedly he met Thales, was initiated as Egyptian priest in Hermopolis, spent time in Babylon after being captured, and was initiated into every mystery cult he could It should be noted that such claims were made about many ancient sages to boost their "wisdom pedigree". Plato is said by ancient sources to have traveled to Egypt and Italy, but my understanding is that most modern scholars doubt that those journeys really happened.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoPythagoras’s father was a gem trader from the Levantine coast so the likelihood of him traveling around the Mediterranean is pretty decent. His Egyptian connection is attested early by Herodotus and his devotion to diverse schools of wisdom is attested in a critical statement by his contemporary, Heraclitus. Of course it’s hard to know. But Plato wrote several letters about his trip to Italy, because he was briefly enslaved there before being freed by his friend the Pythagorean Archytas (who is famous for creating a steam powered flying machine and wrote a work on mechanical engineering). https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1067&context=classicsfacpub https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
- spaceman_2020 3y ago> initiated into every mystery cult he could And in turn, his followers created a strange cult after him! [0] 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism
- MrBuddyCasino 3y ago> The relationship between math and spirituality was very strong back then! On Seymour Cray: Another favorite pastime was digging a tunnel under his home; he attributed the secret of his success to "visits by elves" while he worked in the tunnel: "While I'm digging in the tunnel, the elves will often come to me with solutions to my problem." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray
- pcdoodle 3y agoThat wiki was a fun read! It's fun to speculate about the elves and the tunnels.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y agoThat sounds like he was being figurative. He probably meant that he got ideas while working. Every morning, I get up at 5, and take a 5K walk. During that time, I tend to "triage" the day ahead, and often solve problems that were vexing me, the night before. Part of my walk is around a local high school track. There is a small flock of killdeer birds, that hang out there, and I guess they give me the ideas I have, as they often come to me, at that point in my walk. I enjoyed this part: > One story has it that when Cray was asked by management to provide detailed one-year and five-year plans for his next machine, he simply wrote, "Five-year goal: Build the biggest computer in the world. One year goal: One-fifth of the above." And another time, when expected to write a multi-page detailed status report for the company executives, Cray's two sentence report read: "Activity is progressing satisfactorily as outlined under the June plan. There have been no significant changes or deviations from the June plan."
- 2devnull 3y agoCray sounds mildly autistic.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y agoA lot of these folks are.
- massung 3y agoNow I’m very much interested in reading more about his life! Gotta say tho, sounds a bit like an ancient Marco Polo where maybe the myth is larger than the man at this point. Still going to read more. Thanks for the citations.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoTry to get a copy of the Pythagorean Sourcebook! It’s great reading original sources. So satisfying and often more interesting than modern scholarship about them.
- pavlov 3y ago> "The relationship between math and spirituality was very strong back then!" Seems to me this connection is having a resurgence now as people attempt to project the capabilities of computers beyond human capabilities, where the implications are necessarily bordering on spiritual. Examples include transhumanism, Yudkowsky-style absurdly extrapolated rationalism (Basilisk etc), the simulation hypothesis, AGI salvation hopes...
- nerddadnear40 3y agoAlways has been. My favorite example: George Boole (Who we get Boolean from), had a road to Damascus experience as a teenager and later wrote "An Investigation of the Laws of Thought" where we get our 0s and 1s from, and truth operations, largely to prove God is Good. The concept of 0 and 1, absolute truth and false, was born from his spiritual views.
- carapace 3y ago> Examples include transhumanism, Yudkowsky-style absurdly extrapolated rationalism (Basilisk etc), the simulation hypothesis, AGI salvation hopes... But those are all examples of ways to avoid spirituality.
- pavlov 3y agoThey are often ways to transmute spirituality into a form more palatable to contemporary sensibilities trained on technology. Who runs the universal simulation? Another name for God. The eternal torment of Roko’s Basilisk? Another name for Hell. AGI will save us from ourselves with its incomprehensible intelligence? A cyber-Jesus. Moving your mind into a transhumanist body? Souls rising to Heaven. Etc.
- lamp_book 3y agoSimilarly, sometimes practitioners of technical analysis for financial securities treat it spiritually.
- bzmrgonz 3y agoBro did Reddit/hacker-news on papyrus ...before the internet... :-D