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"Include a clearly marked unsubscribe link in the message body" Gmail truncates mails at a really small limit for some dumb reason so many times this isn't vis

by cma 3y ago

"Include a clearly marked unsubscribe link in the message body" Gmail truncates mails at a really small limit for some dumb reason so many times this isn't visible without extra steps of expanding to the full mail.

TulliusCicero 3y ago
On desktop web gmail there's often a button at the top within gmail's UI to unsubscribe, it acts as a shortcut.
- lucb1e 3y ago
  Google manually creates these for large senders, this is not available to just anyone. There is a standard for this called list-unsubscribe (RFC 8058), but adding the header has no purpose. I have not been able to find an email client that uses the header: Thunderbird, FairEmail, Gmail, Hotmail, and I'm not sure if I asked someone to test it in Outlook but I think so. It is recommended to add the header for lowering your spam score, I don't know if it actually helps, but this one-click unsubscribe thing in your email client's UI seems to be a custom thing they add manually instead of just using the RFC... References to show that this is not just me not understanding how to implement the rfc: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4365850/list-unsubscribe-in-e-mail-header-how-to#comment60957368_7804157 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4365850/list-unsubscribe... https://serverfault.com/questions/329032/how-to-add-the-list-unsubscribe-header-correctly https://serverfault.com/questions/329032/how-to-add-the-list... I also checked emails that do show an unsubscribe button in the client's UI (such as a large pizza ad sender) and they do not have a list-unsubscribe header set at all. If Google wants Gmail to be less spammy, they could start by not implementing double standards that give senders of big newsletters special treatment and a special hole in the spam filter.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    You obviously have some kind of axe to grind specifically about List-Unsubscribe but you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. If a sender has poor reputation, the support for List-Unsubscribe isn't visible to the user for that message.
    - lucb1e 3y ago
      > you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. Then how come emails with unsubscribe buttons in the UI do not have the list-unsubscribe header set, and emails with the header do not have the button visible? Also, I'm not sure that "you don't understand how to use the system" follows from "you can only use the system if you're an invited VIP"
gretch 3y ago
Maybe that unsubscribe link should be at the top then. Interested readers will move past it quickly. People held hostage or cajoled into enrolling will find it quickly. Are you mad at the right party?
neilv 3y ago
Also, those unsubscribe links don't necessarily work, even in non-phishing emails. Besides the usual bad faith (e.g., ignoring unsubscribes, or creating new categories of communications into which users are opted-in), I saw a new one just an hour ago: The unsubscribe link, in genuine marketing email for a brand, is for some email address other than the one to which the email was sent. (In this case, I was unsubscribing some unlikely-looking earthlink address, of all things, in an uneditable form field.)
- pests 3y ago
  NextDoor is horrible with this. 7 different "groups" of notifications each with 5+ notification types each with an option to disable it. The unsubscribe link in each email only lets you unsubscribe from that one specific notification type. You have to login to go through and disable them all (a 5 minute task by itself) but then when they add new groups or types its auto-enabled. Super frustrating and led to me deleting my account.
- lucb1e 3y ago
  > don't necessarily work, even in non-phishing emails Probably you don't, but just in case: note that if you press such a button for a phishing email in an attempt to get off their list, all you do is confirm that your email address is active and you're interacting with their message
  - neilv 3y ago
    Yep, I should've mentioned that, for people who don't yet know.
jcrites 3y ago
I'm pretty sure that Gmail has support for the `List-Unsubscribe` mechanism [1] which provides email clients with a standardized way for a recipient to unsubscribe from the list with a button-click. I can't quickly find any documentation about this from Google directly, confirming whether they support it, but there are a lot of 3P websites discussing it. It's kind of frustrating that Google's announcement [2] explicitly mentions one-click unsubscribes, without actually explaining (or linking to) what specific technologies they're talking about: > Enable easy unsubscription: You shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to stop receiving unwanted messages from a particular email sender. It should take one click. So we’re requiring that large senders give Gmail recipients the ability to unsubscribe from commercial email in one click, and that they process unsubscription requests within two days. We’ve built these requirements on open standards so that once senders implement them, everyone who uses email benefits. emphasis mine) That paragraph certainly evokes the idea of `List-Unsubscribe` to me, but it'd be nice to know for sure; and to know what if anything specifically sends need to do to be compatible with Gmail. (Note that I don't think this removes the need for the email body to include an unsubscribe link, since a recipient can't be presumed to be using a client that supports it.) [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt [2] https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-security-authentication-spam-protection/ https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-security-authentica...
- pests 3y ago
  If you select multiple messages in the list view and mark them as spam, Gmail will ask if you want to also unsubscribe. Probably using this mechanism? Report Spam and Unsubscribe These messages will be marked as spam. Would you also like to stop receiving similar messages from following senders? Learn more. <list of sender names> [Report Spam & Unsubscribe] [Report Spam]
- lucb1e 3y ago
  > I'm pretty sure that Gmail has support for the `List-Unsubscribe` mechanism They do not, see my comment in reply to a sibling thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37773525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37773525
- 3y ago
addicted 3y ago
The GMail iOS app is completely unusable for me. I simply cannot figure out how to read a thread with it. Ive reached the point where I’ve started using the Apple Mail app instead (yech). Also, why is it so hard to forward/reply all?

by cma 3y ago

TulliusCicero 3y ago

On desktop web gmail there's often a button at the top within gmail's UI to unsubscribe, it acts as a shortcut.

lucb1e 3y ago
Google manually creates these for large senders, this is not available to just anyone. There is a standard for this called list-unsubscribe (RFC 8058), but adding the header has no purpose. I have not been able to find an email client that uses the header: Thunderbird, FairEmail, Gmail, Hotmail, and I'm not sure if I asked someone to test it in Outlook but I think so. It is recommended to add the header for lowering your spam score, I don't know if it actually helps, but this one-click unsubscribe thing in your email client's UI seems to be a custom thing they add manually instead of just using the RFC... References to show that this is not just me not understanding how to implement the rfc: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4365850/list-unsubscribe-in-e-mail-header-how-to#comment60957368_7804157 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4365850/list-unsubscribe... https://serverfault.com/questions/329032/how-to-add-the-list-unsubscribe-header-correctly https://serverfault.com/questions/329032/how-to-add-the-list... I also checked emails that do show an unsubscribe button in the client's UI (such as a large pizza ad sender) and they do not have a list-unsubscribe header set at all. If Google wants Gmail to be less spammy, they could start by not implementing double standards that give senders of big newsletters special treatment and a special hole in the spam filter.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  You obviously have some kind of axe to grind specifically about List-Unsubscribe but you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. If a sender has poor reputation, the support for List-Unsubscribe isn't visible to the user for that message.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    > you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. Then how come emails with unsubscribe buttons in the UI do not have the list-unsubscribe header set, and emails with the header do not have the button visible? Also, I'm not sure that "you don't understand how to use the system" follows from "you can only use the system if you're an invited VIP"

gretch 3y ago

Maybe that unsubscribe link should be at the top then. Interested readers will move past it quickly. People held hostage or cajoled into enrolling will find it quickly. Are you mad at the right party?

neilv 3y ago

Also, those unsubscribe links don't necessarily work, even in non-phishing emails. Besides the usual bad faith (e.g., ignoring unsubscribes, or creating new categories of communications into which users are opted-in), I saw a new one just an hour ago: The unsubscribe link, in genuine marketing email for a brand, is for some email address other than the one to which the email was sent. (In this case, I was unsubscribing some unlikely-looking earthlink address, of all things, in an uneditable form field.)

pests 3y ago
NextDoor is horrible with this. 7 different "groups" of notifications each with 5+ notification types each with an option to disable it. The unsubscribe link in each email only lets you unsubscribe from that one specific notification type. You have to login to go through and disable them all (a 5 minute task by itself) but then when they add new groups or types its auto-enabled. Super frustrating and led to me deleting my account.
lucb1e 3y ago
> don't necessarily work, even in non-phishing emails Probably you don't, but just in case: note that if you press such a button for a phishing email in an attempt to get off their list, all you do is confirm that your email address is active and you're interacting with their message
- neilv 3y ago
  Yep, I should've mentioned that, for people who don't yet know.

jcrites 3y ago

I'm pretty sure that Gmail has support for the `List-Unsubscribe` mechanism [1] which provides email clients with a standardized way for a recipient to unsubscribe from the list with a button-click. I can't quickly find any documentation about this from Google directly, confirming whether they support it, but there are a lot of 3P websites discussing it. It's kind of frustrating that Google's announcement [2] explicitly mentions one-click unsubscribes, without actually explaining (or linking to) what specific technologies they're talking about: > Enable easy unsubscription: You shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to stop receiving unwanted messages from a particular email sender. It should take one click. So we’re requiring that large senders give Gmail recipients the ability to unsubscribe from commercial email in one click, and that they process unsubscription requests within two days. We’ve built these requirements on open standards so that once senders implement them, everyone who uses email benefits. emphasis mine) That paragraph certainly evokes the idea of `List-Unsubscribe` to me, but it'd be nice to know for sure; and to know what if anything specifically sends need to do to be compatible with Gmail. (Note that I don't think this removes the need for the email body to include an unsubscribe link, since a recipient can't be presumed to be using a client that supports it.) [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt [2] https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-security-authentication-spam-protection/ https://blog.google/products/gmail/gmail-security-authentica...

pests 3y ago
If you select multiple messages in the list view and mark them as spam, Gmail will ask if you want to also unsubscribe. Probably using this mechanism? Report Spam and Unsubscribe These messages will be marked as spam. Would you also like to stop receiving similar messages from following senders? Learn more. <list of sender names> [Report Spam & Unsubscribe] [Report Spam]
lucb1e 3y ago
> I'm pretty sure that Gmail has support for the `List-Unsubscribe` mechanism They do not, see my comment in reply to a sibling thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37773525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37773525
3y ago

addicted 3y ago

The GMail iOS app is completely unusable for me. I simply cannot figure out how to read a thread with it. Ive reached the point where I’ve started using the Apple Mail app instead (yech). Also, why is it so hard to forward/reply all?