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Imagine any single one of those companies being the single payer insurance you are forced into. They (government included) become far worse. Rationing care, dec
by dzink 3y ago
Imagine any single one of those companies being the single payer insurance you are forced into. They (government included) become far worse. Rationing care, deciding who lives or does, underpaying doctors and nurses till the best ones quit and the remaining have any care burned out of them. That’s what’s happened in other countries and regions and every time there is a surge or a more complicated care you and loved ones are left to die or deprived of care options.
- xkekjrktllss 3y agoExactly why the entire system should be nationalized instead of outsourced. Further, nationalized healthcare promotes political engagement on a basis of material necessities that politicians must be accountable for.
- DougN7 3y agoI’m not sure about that any more either. Read about the NHS in the UK - sounds like it is a dumpster fire and people are dying.
- cogman10 3y agoThe dumpster fire is happening because the conservative government there is running it into the ground by cutting funding at every turn possible and closing down hospitals. And even then, I've experienced NHS care and it's 1000% better than the experience I've had with american care. It's not perfect by any means, but it's insane how much better it is than what we have here.
- gustavus 3y agoI've heard this narrative over and over again yet every time I look at it the NHS budget has been consistently increasing year over year for a long time.
- xkekjrktllss 3y agoAnd proportionally even more of that budget goes to the pockets of politicians' donors who own the companies that displace the nationalized NHS. Again, the argument is for nationalization, which is the opposite of the direction the NHS has been heading in.
- devnullbrain 3y agoReal term cuts & ageing populace
- xkekjrktllss 3y agoThey aren't necessarily cutting funding. They are cutting the amount of funding for nationalized services while increasing the amount of funding for outsourcing contracts.
- sgjohnson 3y agoIt is. NHS is more of a de facto state religion than it is a decent healthcare system.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- xkekjrktllss 3y agoMy argument is for nationalized healthcare. The NHS is increasingly not nationalized, so you're only proving my point if anything. Outsourcing the NHS has ruined it.
- antisthenes 3y agoBefore Brexit, NHS had better outcomes at 1/2 the cost of the US system. Calling it a dumpster fire when the US system exists is laughable at best.
- CogitoCogito 3y agoThat's a pretty good description of the American system as well.
- Kerb_ 3y ago>Rationing care, deciding who lives or dies, underpaying doctors and nurses till the best ones quit and the remaining have any care burned out of them This is literally happening under the current system now. My cancer treatment plan, should I ever get it while I'm living in America, is to blow all my cash and buy an exit bag on credit.
- polygamous_bat 3y agoWhat scares some people is not that rationing care may already exist but that there may not be any fast-track line you can buy your way into.
- sfink 3y agoA lot of countries have both nationalized care and the fast track. Many people buy private insurance to cover what the national system does not. Maybe it's not the best of both worlds, but it's at least a far better safety net than the US provides, and that's the most critical piece. Both for the most affected individuals, and society as a whole (even in terms of cost! An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and all that.)
- dzink 3y agoThere are medical company systems in the US that operate similarly to a nationalized system (insurer and provider bundled, I’m not mentioning the name) and have similar downsides - cancer care or any advanced care is sub-par and mental health is hard to impossible to get. The funding to physicians within is distributed on political instead of performance grounds so best ones leave. I’ve lost several friends who used that insurance. In Bulgaria where I have many friends and family, the system has always been nationalized, barely funded by the government. I don’t know a single Cancer survivor there.
- cogman10 3y agoYet we have examples of nationalized health care across the world that isn't this system you are describing. The US stands alone in it's terrible health care (and the price we pay for it). We already ration care, it's based on what you can afford. We already underpay doctors and nurses like crazy, just go talk to one. We already drive them to burn out, because the current health care system is prioritizing admin pay over quality care. The hellscape you imagine is the american system. It literally could not be done worse if we tried.
- lxm 3y agoAverage nurse salary in the US: $82,750 Average nurse salary in California (where ~10% of US population lives): $124,000 Average nurse salary in Spain: €29,277 My sources are probably junk, but even with insurance companies out of the picture what is the math that would make the US healthcare cheaper? This is without tackling the earning rates for specialty MDs, like vascular surgeons, who are not that numerous to begin with.
- hezralig 3y agoCompare the cost of living of Spain to the US (food, rent, public transit) my friend. What makes the cost of CARE cheaper is less administrative agents/overhead.
- lxm 3y agoHypothetically then places with high concentration of beneficiaries covered by a single-payer system (Medicare) should have markedly cheaper medical care, lower overhead costs and all. Yet https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-has-the-most-expensive-hospitals-in-the-country-study-finds/ https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-ha...
- pauldenton 3y agoI suspect demographics are part of why Florida hospital costs are so high. The youngest state in the USA is Utah. The state has a median age of just 31. They have some of the least expensive hospitals in the country.