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Longer comment about same: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=230990 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=230990 Emacs is a Lisp virtual machine, and tends to

Longer comment about same: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=230990 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=230990 Emacs is a Lisp virtual machine, and tends to act more like an integrated environment, while vi(m) is a text editor with less intrinsic extensibility. Also, Emacs's default keybindings (both in the main system and virtually every mode people write for it, out of tradition) tend to use quite a bit of modifier keys (e.g. you are frequently typing with control held down), which can be hard on your hands. Vi clearly wins in this regard.

graywh 18y ago
The key thing being Vim's "modes". Vim users spend most of their time in normal mode navigating and doing some editing. Insert mode is for actually typing characters into the document.
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  Right. Emacs modes are more context-oriented ("I'm editing XML, so give me navigation commands that natively understand that syntax") while vi modes are operation-oriented (either inserting/appending or navigating/editing). In the vi sense, Emacs is always in both modes, so you need to press modifier keys to categorize actions (and if you're unlucky, you may find yourself gradually growing crab claws for pinkies). There's an editor synthesis waiting to happen, but decades of old elisp means there's a lot of inertia for new editors to overcome.
  - graywh 18y ago
    The difference I was trying to point out is that Emacs is always in "insert mode" in the vi sense. In vi normal mode, many commands don't require modifier keys. Vim has syntax-aware navigation, too. And what Emacs calls "modes", Vim calls syntax/filetype plugins.
kaens 18y ago
Pretty much the first thing I do these days is swap Caps Lock and Control on my keyboard layout. Emacs is the reason I started doing this, now I wonder how I ever lived without it.
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  On long days at work, sometimes my pinky will start to ache from holding down control while typing. It's definitely better than leaving Ctrl at the bottom left, but I'm considering remapping the left Alt to Ctrl so I can type it with my thumb. (No other RSI symptoms, and I'd like to keep it that way.) I don't have a Kinesis keyboard, but I read that their modifier keys (along with space, Enter, and backspace) are all at the thumbs, and that seems like a really good idea.

graywh 18y ago

The key thing being Vim's "modes". Vim users spend most of their time in normal mode navigating and doing some editing. Insert mode is for actually typing characters into the document.

silentbicycle 18y ago
Right. Emacs modes are more context-oriented ("I'm editing XML, so give me navigation commands that natively understand that syntax") while vi modes are operation-oriented (either inserting/appending or navigating/editing). In the vi sense, Emacs is always in both modes, so you need to press modifier keys to categorize actions (and if you're unlucky, you may find yourself gradually growing crab claws for pinkies). There's an editor synthesis waiting to happen, but decades of old elisp means there's a lot of inertia for new editors to overcome.
- graywh 18y ago
  The difference I was trying to point out is that Emacs is always in "insert mode" in the vi sense. In vi normal mode, many commands don't require modifier keys. Vim has syntax-aware navigation, too. And what Emacs calls "modes", Vim calls syntax/filetype plugins.

kaens 18y ago

Pretty much the first thing I do these days is swap Caps Lock and Control on my keyboard layout. Emacs is the reason I started doing this, now I wonder how I ever lived without it.

silentbicycle 18y ago
On long days at work, sometimes my pinky will start to ache from holding down control while typing. It's definitely better than leaving Ctrl at the bottom left, but I'm considering remapping the left Alt to Ctrl so I can type it with my thumb. (No other RSI symptoms, and I'd like to keep it that way.) I don't have a Kinesis keyboard, but I read that their modifier keys (along with space, Enter, and backspace) are all at the thumbs, and that seems like a really good idea.