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"What you are proving is that they are in fact working on this problem." The scam site has been up for many years. "be similarly silly in stating that fraud w

"What you are proving is that they are in fact working on this problem." The scam site has been up for many years. "be similarly silly in stating that fraud was the businessmodel for Germany" No, I never stated that [financial] fraud was/is the business model for Germany. Especially Germany, while a hub for laundering money in other ways, is not very finance heavy. I was just pointing out that German authorities did not do their job in a nearly criminal way. Germany considered ‘paradise’ for money laundering https://www.refire-online.com/investment/germany-considered-%E2%80%98paradise%E2%80%99-for-money-laundering/ https://www.refire-online.com/investment/germany-considered-...

jacquesm 3y ago
> No, I never stated that [financial] fraud was/is the business model for Germany. Please read more carefully. > The scam site has been up for many years. And likely will continue to be so until someone successfully brings a case to the Estonian courts. And that will require that party to go by the book, it will likely be costly (as it always is when bringing suit in a country not your own) and will take a long time. > What you are proving is that they are in fact working on this problem. But what I meant was: the fact that the numbers are going down is proof positive that something is being done, but probably just not fast enough. Otoh governments tends to be ridiculously ineffective in thse things. FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, the vast majority of them earn their living in legal ways and silly generalizations are not going to help you gain much sympathy. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania (and a number of other EU states) all have underpowered financial, legal and enforcement branches in large part because they are simply not the wealthiest countries and this situation attracts scammers and other criminals like flies. This is a real problem. Solutions are neither going to be quick nor easy.
- Beijinger 3y ago
  "FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, the vast majority of them earn their living in legal ways " I never said anything against Estonian people, neither did I say anything against Mexicans. Most people earn their living in a legal way. Even in a favela (Brazilian slum) the drug dealers make a tiny tiny fraction of the population. (In fact, I did not even say anything against drug trade. I think the war on drugs has failed tremendously and drugs should be legalized as much as they can be reasonably legalized). "FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, ..have underpowered financial, legal and enforcement branches" Well, how many inhabitants does Luxembourg or Liechtenstein have? A fraction of this. This can't be an excuse.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Luxembourg and Liechtenstein are both fabulously wealthy and also have historically had a huge problem with illegal deposits. Not the best examples, to put it mildly. What you wrote was that this was 'the businessmodel of Estonia', and I'm illustrating to you that this isn't true. Whether you intended to sleight the Estonian people or not goes right out the window when you make such generalizing claims about the entire country. It just isn't true.
    - Beijinger 3y ago
      "Luxembourg and Liechtenstein are both fabulously wealthy and also have historically had a huge problem with illegal deposits." So you are hinting that they build their wealth the same way as Estonia does now? :-)
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        No, I'm stating that they have already done so and that Estonia isn't doing this in a purposeful way. Liechtenstein, Gstaad, Monaco, Luxembourg, the Channel Islands and a bunch of other entities within Europe have all made bank over the last 100 years or so by taking illegal deposits of all kinds within their regulated banking system. Estonia isn't in that league, nor are they trying to get there. They simply can't cope with the influx, whereas for those others that influx of illegal capital was the goal itself, which is well documented, and which, incidentally is one of the reasons moneyed interests aimed to have the UK secede the EU. Unless you have actual proof that Estonia created their program with the express interest of attracting illegal cash I think you should drop the generalization.
        Beijinger 3y ago
        I don't think influx of illegal capital was the goal. But it might have become an interesting source of income. " I think you should drop the generalization." Maybe it is the 20k I lost. But Estonian law enforcement is abysmal.

jacquesm 3y ago

> No, I never stated that [financial] fraud was/is the business model for Germany. Please read more carefully. > The scam site has been up for many years. And likely will continue to be so until someone successfully brings a case to the Estonian courts. And that will require that party to go by the book, it will likely be costly (as it always is when bringing suit in a country not your own) and will take a long time. > What you are proving is that they are in fact working on this problem. But what I meant was: the fact that the numbers are going down is proof positive that something is being done, but probably just not fast enough. Otoh governments tends to be ridiculously ineffective in thse things. FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, the vast majority of them earn their living in legal ways and silly generalizations are not going to help you gain much sympathy. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania (and a number of other EU states) all have underpowered financial, legal and enforcement branches in large part because they are simply not the wealthiest countries and this situation attracts scammers and other criminals like flies. This is a real problem. Solutions are neither going to be quick nor easy.

Beijinger 3y ago
"FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, the vast majority of them earn their living in legal ways " I never said anything against Estonian people, neither did I say anything against Mexicans. Most people earn their living in a legal way. Even in a favela (Brazilian slum) the drug dealers make a tiny tiny fraction of the population. (In fact, I did not even say anything against drug trade. I think the war on drugs has failed tremendously and drugs should be legalized as much as they can be reasonably legalized). "FWIW Estonia has ~1.3 million people living there, ..have underpowered financial, legal and enforcement branches" Well, how many inhabitants does Luxembourg or Liechtenstein have? A fraction of this. This can't be an excuse.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Luxembourg and Liechtenstein are both fabulously wealthy and also have historically had a huge problem with illegal deposits. Not the best examples, to put it mildly. What you wrote was that this was 'the businessmodel of Estonia', and I'm illustrating to you that this isn't true. Whether you intended to sleight the Estonian people or not goes right out the window when you make such generalizing claims about the entire country. It just isn't true.
  - Beijinger 3y ago
    "Luxembourg and Liechtenstein are both fabulously wealthy and also have historically had a huge problem with illegal deposits." So you are hinting that they build their wealth the same way as Estonia does now? :-)
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      No, I'm stating that they have already done so and that Estonia isn't doing this in a purposeful way. Liechtenstein, Gstaad, Monaco, Luxembourg, the Channel Islands and a bunch of other entities within Europe have all made bank over the last 100 years or so by taking illegal deposits of all kinds within their regulated banking system. Estonia isn't in that league, nor are they trying to get there. They simply can't cope with the influx, whereas for those others that influx of illegal capital was the goal itself, which is well documented, and which, incidentally is one of the reasons moneyed interests aimed to have the UK secede the EU. Unless you have actual proof that Estonia created their program with the express interest of attracting illegal cash I think you should drop the generalization.
      - Beijinger 3y ago
        I don't think influx of illegal capital was the goal. But it might have become an interesting source of income. " I think you should drop the generalization." Maybe it is the 20k I lost. But Estonian law enforcement is abysmal.