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>And, if there was corroboration with the digital trail of the mobile device, and you appearing on a CCTV at a location matching the GPS at some point or chatti

by snvzz 3y ago

>And, if there was corroboration with the digital trail of the mobile device, and you appearing on a CCTV at a location matching the GPS at some point or chatting to somebody on the phone, it'd possibly further break the insinuation that you didn't have the device during this time period. I see no advantage to sharing the data in the cloud, vs just storing it locally in your phone. You can still use it for your own benefit, while preventing it from being used against you.

bmicraft 3y ago
That would be true if it were an option. Google hasn't implemented such a feature und 3rd party apps differ features and are probably general worse, especially considering how android blocks background activity in low battery situations
- snvzz 3y ago
  It's certainly possible (osmand can store tracks, with configurable sample rate based granularity). It is just not easy to do. There's many stoppers to doing so like the one you've described. No doubt Google makes it really easy to give up all your data. Very hard to keep it private and local. And this is a horrible trend.
lhnz 3y ago
> I see no advantage to sharing the data in the cloud, vs just storing > it locally in your phone. You have to look at this from the perspective of the reliability and integrity of digital evidence. If the data is stored locally it could be argued that it's possible that you have tampered with it, particularly since you possess the skill set necessary to do so. On the other hand, if it is stored on the cloud, it's likely that you won't have the level of access required to tamper with the data, and that there will be an auditable transaction history with information about the identity of anybody that made changes. Google will be able to provide information to the court on the level of security that applies to the data -- in fact, data from Google services is already known to be legally admissable assuming it passes relevance, reliability and integrity tests. Of course, you might be able to create something similar locally, but it's more complicated and untested: you'd need to be able to prove that you don't have the ability to retroactively amend the data (write access, encryption keys, etc). I agree that it would be nicer if: the digital evidence wasn't accessible by others and was also reliable and with integrity protection. Maybe an option would be to encrypt it with your public key and write it into a public blockchain?
- snvzz 3y ago
  >On the other hand, if it is stored on the cloud, it's likely that you won't have the level of access required to tamper with the data... Location data can easily be fabricated. This has been discussed extensively in other subthreads. Thus insufficient by itself. However, it can be corroborated with e.g. cameras along the path if need be, providing an alibi. By having control of the data, rather than giving it up to the cloud, it can be used in this way, without allowing it to be used against you in the "location data says you were near the scene of the crime" scenario.
  - lhnz 3y ago
    > Location data can easily be fabricated. True. We are getting into territory that might also consider: what type of mobile device do you use, has it been jailbroken, and are there signs of GPS spoofing in the location history? But, in general, if you have a digital trail which corroborates with other digital or real-life trails, you have something which does have weight as evidence.

by snvzz 3y ago

bmicraft 3y ago

That would be true if it were an option. Google hasn't implemented such a feature und 3rd party apps differ features and are probably general worse, especially considering how android blocks background activity in low battery situations

snvzz 3y ago
It's certainly possible (osmand can store tracks, with configurable sample rate based granularity). It is just not easy to do. There's many stoppers to doing so like the one you've described. No doubt Google makes it really easy to give up all your data. Very hard to keep it private and local. And this is a horrible trend.

lhnz 3y ago

> I see no advantage to sharing the data in the cloud, vs just storing > it locally in your phone. You have to look at this from the perspective of the reliability and integrity of digital evidence. If the data is stored locally it could be argued that it's possible that you have tampered with it, particularly since you possess the skill set necessary to do so. On the other hand, if it is stored on the cloud, it's likely that you won't have the level of access required to tamper with the data, and that there will be an auditable transaction history with information about the identity of anybody that made changes. Google will be able to provide information to the court on the level of security that applies to the data -- in fact, data from Google services is already known to be legally admissable assuming it passes relevance, reliability and integrity tests. Of course, you might be able to create something similar locally, but it's more complicated and untested: you'd need to be able to prove that you don't have the ability to retroactively amend the data (write access, encryption keys, etc). I agree that it would be nicer if: the digital evidence wasn't accessible by others and was also reliable and with integrity protection. Maybe an option would be to encrypt it with your public key and write it into a public blockchain?

snvzz 3y ago
>On the other hand, if it is stored on the cloud, it's likely that you won't have the level of access required to tamper with the data... Location data can easily be fabricated. This has been discussed extensively in other subthreads. Thus insufficient by itself. However, it can be corroborated with e.g. cameras along the path if need be, providing an alibi. By having control of the data, rather than giving it up to the cloud, it can be used in this way, without allowing it to be used against you in the "location data says you were near the scene of the crime" scenario.
- lhnz 3y ago
  > Location data can easily be fabricated. True. We are getting into territory that might also consider: what type of mobile device do you use, has it been jailbroken, and are there signs of GPS spoofing in the location history? But, in general, if you have a digital trail which corroborates with other digital or real-life trails, you have something which does have weight as evidence.