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> One of the biggest credit card fraud empires on the planet was run by the son of a deputy in the Russian Duma. $169 million in credit card fraud. I raise yo

> One of the biggest credit card fraud empires on the planet was run by the son of a deputy in the Russian Duma. $169 million in credit card fraud. I raise you with the biggest crypto exchange ponzi (so far) being run by the son of two Stanford lawyers and law teachers (dad teaching tax laws and mom teaching ethics, while having none). Well connected people to the US political elite, donating tens of millions to US political candidates. All the while having one of the most respected publication in the US (maybe not so much respected anymore now) actively participating in the scheme.

simpleuser27 3y ago
It wouldn't be HN without classic "But America Bad!" whataboutism.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  Why do people bother typing in accusations in the discussion that they know would be widely overturned in the opposing direction? That's not a tabloid, you cannot force text on your audience and have their "what about" heard only by their relatives.
  - blargey 3y ago
    Because “What about” is a distraction tactic. It does not overturn anything.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      More often than not, the original message in the first place was a distraction. You do not get to dictate the direction of discussion to your peers and having them go along. So what are they distracting it from?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- mc32 3y ago
  I dunno, one crime was ~200MM the other ~10MMM, so an order of magnitude and a half larger crime. Both are associated with political figures in their respective countries.
- thrway63245 3y ago
  Americans are always good guys by definition.
- FpUser 3y ago
  And your problem with it is?
btilly 3y ago
Both bad things can be true. Crypto is one of the best methods available to Russia to circumvent sanctions and turn their capabilities to hard currencies. This is true whether we're talking about acquiring money by running frauds internationally, or finding ways to be paid for cybercrimes like ransomware. Rather bigger amounts of defrauding are possible for Americans who figure out how to directly access the American financial system. That doesn't change the way that it is being used by Russia. And the Russian use case is far more relevant to this story - they are undoubtably involved in a shockingly large fraction of the crypto money launderers that were registered in Estonia.
- Beijinger 3y ago
  "Crypto is one of the best methods available to Russia to circumvent sanctions and turn their capabilities to hard currencies." Is it? Any evidence for this? It was my understanding that they use gold: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/03/turkey-banker-iran-sanctions-mehmet-hakan-atilla https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/03/turkey-banker-... But I know that crypto is somewhat important for North Korea
  - btilly 3y ago
    The phrase "one of the best methods" means not the only one. Yes, gold is another method that is used. But ransomware gangs are overwhelmingly Russian, and overwhelmingly use crypto as their payment channel. It is far from the first kind of cybercrime to be overwhelmingly Russian, and disrupting payment channels is a good way to shut it down. Read https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/ransomware-problem-bitcoin-problem https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/ransomware-problem-bitc... for more on this. From one of the key figures in shutting down the Viagra spam problem. Which was also largely created by Russia.
    - Beijinger 3y ago
      "But ransomware gangs are overwhelmingly Russian, and overwhelmingly use crypto as their payment channel" Would it not be a little bit strange for Russian ransomware to provide an IBAN or a Money Wire to a bank? And Russian ransomware actors are, in contrast to North Korean and as far as I know, not state actors. (Russian Troll factories are not ransom ware)
rospaya 3y ago
> All the while having one of the most respected publication in the US (maybe not so much respected anymore now) actively participating in the scheme. Which one is that?
lern_too_spel 3y ago
One is going to prison. The other gets a pat on the back from the Kremlin.
eshack94 3y ago
Which publication are you referring to? Just curious — I genuinely don't know.

simpleuser27 3y ago

It wouldn't be HN without classic "But America Bad!" whataboutism.

thriftwy 3y ago
Why do people bother typing in accusations in the discussion that they know would be widely overturned in the opposing direction? That's not a tabloid, you cannot force text on your audience and have their "what about" heard only by their relatives.
- blargey 3y ago
  Because “What about” is a distraction tactic. It does not overturn anything.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    More often than not, the original message in the first place was a distraction. You do not get to dictate the direction of discussion to your peers and having them go along. So what are they distracting it from?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
mc32 3y ago
I dunno, one crime was ~200MM the other ~10MMM, so an order of magnitude and a half larger crime. Both are associated with political figures in their respective countries.
thrway63245 3y ago
Americans are always good guys by definition.
FpUser 3y ago
And your problem with it is?

btilly 3y ago

Both bad things can be true. Crypto is one of the best methods available to Russia to circumvent sanctions and turn their capabilities to hard currencies. This is true whether we're talking about acquiring money by running frauds internationally, or finding ways to be paid for cybercrimes like ransomware. Rather bigger amounts of defrauding are possible for Americans who figure out how to directly access the American financial system. That doesn't change the way that it is being used by Russia. And the Russian use case is far more relevant to this story - they are undoubtably involved in a shockingly large fraction of the crypto money launderers that were registered in Estonia.

Beijinger 3y ago
"Crypto is one of the best methods available to Russia to circumvent sanctions and turn their capabilities to hard currencies." Is it? Any evidence for this? It was my understanding that they use gold: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/03/turkey-banker-iran-sanctions-mehmet-hakan-atilla https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/03/turkey-banker-... But I know that crypto is somewhat important for North Korea
- btilly 3y ago
  The phrase "one of the best methods" means not the only one. Yes, gold is another method that is used. But ransomware gangs are overwhelmingly Russian, and overwhelmingly use crypto as their payment channel. It is far from the first kind of cybercrime to be overwhelmingly Russian, and disrupting payment channels is a good way to shut it down. Read https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/ransomware-problem-bitcoin-problem https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/ransomware-problem-bitc... for more on this. From one of the key figures in shutting down the Viagra spam problem. Which was also largely created by Russia.
  - Beijinger 3y ago
    "But ransomware gangs are overwhelmingly Russian, and overwhelmingly use crypto as their payment channel" Would it not be a little bit strange for Russian ransomware to provide an IBAN or a Money Wire to a bank? And Russian ransomware actors are, in contrast to North Korean and as far as I know, not state actors. (Russian Troll factories are not ransom ware)

rospaya 3y ago

> All the while having one of the most respected publication in the US (maybe not so much respected anymore now) actively participating in the scheme. Which one is that?

lern_too_spel 3y ago

One is going to prison. The other gets a pat on the back from the Kremlin.

eshack94 3y ago

Which publication are you referring to? Just curious — I genuinely don't know.