Well a contrived example of a bad or ineffective technique is not a counter point. Nor, of course, is MKULTRA docs themselves that claim ineffectiveness, whatev

Well a contrived example of a bad or ineffective technique is not a counter point. Nor, of course, is MKULTRA docs themselves that claim ineffectiveness, whatever small, unredacted amount of which we're privvy to. People do break and defect to other countries all the time. It happened numerous times on both sides during the Cold War. Surely part of that process is convincing your captive or target that your side's "cause or mission" is better than the one they came from. To what extent is that even wrong I don't know. What is a culture but a cult on a grander scale (as has sometimes been said of religion)? Not all cults need be death cults. You can't just tell someone to do something repetitiously and they blindly follow the order. You would have to convince the person that if they didn't do something, the world would be worse off or something even more horrific would happen in a fictional alternate universe if that person was not stopped.