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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that while, conspiracy theorist tend to both greatly exaggerate what actually happened, and use things that we have evide
by Chathamization 3y ago
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that while, conspiracy theorist tend to both greatly exaggerate what actually happened, and use things that we have evidence of to push wild conspiracies we have no evidence of.
Let me give an example I just found. Because of this post, I looked at the Wikipedia page for MK Ultra and found this line:
> The people under this interrogation were CIA employees, U.S. military personnel, and agents suspected of working for the other side in the Cold War. Long-term debilitation and several deaths resulted from this.
Thought that was an interesting claim, so I checked the source - footnote 36 - which was Rappoport, J. (1995). "CIA Experiments With Mind Control on Children". Perceptions Magazine, p. 56. It took me a while to track that source down, but I found some pages that had it such as this one[1]:
It claims that there was a vast effort to create children sleeper CIA agents in the U.S. to control America. The evidence is based on “recovered memories,” which is a defunct technique that in the 80’s lead to conspiracies about a nationwide underground Satanic movement that was secretly controlling the U.S. Those theories, this Rappaport article, and even some comments here all lean heavily on Operation Paperclip, with the implication that the scientists the U.S. brought over post-WWII created a secret Nazi movement within our own government.
Looking at Rappaport’s website is interesting too. He believes the “Covid shots were kill shots” and that January 6 was a staged false flag event.
That’s enough time spent on crazy for me today. It takes a ton of time to track down each of these individual sources like this. Honestly, it’s exhausting, and too many people think that some evidence of wrong doing decades ago is an invitation to shut down critical thought and open the door for all sorts of craziness.
[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20070608225401/http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/mind_control/161916.html http://web.archive.org/web/20070608225401/http://www.totse.c...
[2] https://nomorefakenews.com/ https://nomorefakenews.com/
- lazide 3y agoCrazy gloms onto these things - both inside and outside the gov’t, and confusion is often used as a tool by ‘friends’ and adversaries. ARTICHOKE was the predecessor program to MKULTRA, and was explicitly to figure out how to trigger a cut-out to assassinate someone (especially high profile politicians). Here is the memo - https://nsarchive.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/project-artichoke-22-january-1954.pdf https://nsarchive.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/project-artich... (Copies of course, that I found googling around). These were real and dangerous programs. The CIA director explicitly ordered the destruction of all MKULTRA documents 2 years before Congress started to investigate it, after a suspicious and rather public death of one of the major Directors of the program. The only reason we have much documentation at all related to it is because several reports got misfiled and were missed during the shredder party, but were found later when the investigation got started. Unfortunately they were mainly financial overviews, not useful program documents. We know something very similar happened when Congress started looking into the CIA’s ‘extraordinary rendition’/torture programs. Along with active interference in the investigation. And no consequences for anyone involved. So take that as you will.
- throw7 3y agoCIA got better with cleaning up. Bikowsky and Haspel are ones I remember (maybe because they happened to be woman...).
- lazide 3y agoI’m not sure being responsible/involved with https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri is good. Maybe better than MKULTRA? Seems dubious though. They did finally release him instead of ‘disappearing’ him though. So that is one point in their favor I guess? To your point, better I guess? Still a sad and unconscionable thing for the gov’t to be doing IMO.