4 ms·

So what if you screw them over, which jurisdiction can they turn to? Plus, the tax burden may be that you do more than "your own taxes" but to have an accountan

by Chris2048 3y ago

So what if you screw them over, which jurisdiction can they turn to? Plus, the tax burden may be that you do more than "your own taxes" but to have an accountant, and probably a company, registered in the relevant country anyway.

notpushkin 3y ago
Screw them over how? If they don't like my work, they can fire me on the spot and just stop paying my invoices. If I do something very shady, they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract (I'm happy if it happens to be their country). > Plus, the tax burden may be that you do more than "your own taxes" but to have an accountant, and probably a company, registered in the relevant country anyway. How does that work? IIRC as a company, you can pay any company or contractor you want (excluding tax havens), and generally it is the contractor's responsibility to pay taxes, unless some physical goods are shipped. (Emphasis on generally, I haven't researched every country's tax laws, but it should work for US and EU.)
- Chris2048 3y ago
  share confidential information, double-sell their software that you wrote, break some other contractual agreement exceeding the value of your last invoice. > they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract which requires your local jurisdiction to play ball or else you can just ignore it.
  - notpushkin 3y ago
    > share confidential information Valid point. > double-sell their software that you wrote Some are indeed producing some innovative code, and might warrant limiting their pool of candidates to their jurisdiction only, but I don't think this is an issue for 95% of engineering jobs out there. > which requires your local jurisdiction to play ball Yeah, this can be a problem if my local jurisdiction is, say, Russia or Iran. Normally this shouldn't be an issue though?
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      > Some are indeed producing some innovative code I think even anything that reveals something about their infra, or customers, would be a problem. > Normally this shouldn't be an issue though? It doesn't have to be impossible, just hard enough to not be worth it e.g. having to hire a foreign lawyer.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Suing someone who lives in the same town as you is already a giant pain in the ass. Figuring out how to do it in another country? Good luck not being screwed by your attorneys, for instance, or even knowing which type to call! Every country has significant and meaningful differences in legal traditions, laws, procedures, etc. For easy examples, try to figure out how to (actually) make a fraud claim against someone in England, France, Russia, and Thailand.
- Aurornis 3y ago
  > If I do something very shady, they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract (I'm happy if it happens to be their country). If you only look at this from the perspective of a good actor who does the right thing and flies to foreign countries to get sued, it's never going to make sense. The thing about bad actors is that they don't play by the rules if they can get away with it. If you're forced to sue someone or press criminal charges, they've likely done something very bad and will just avoid traveling to that country. That is the problem. There is no practical recourse, even if it's theoretically possible to start proceedings against the person.
gj0 3y ago
In my case, my employer fired me because they ran out of funds. The wrong part was that they didn't honour the notice period mentioned in the contract.
- notpushkin 3y ago
  Yeah, I think in this case the employee / contractor is in the weaker position. Personally, I don't mind, as long as I can get more jobs that way.
- myth2018 3y ago
  Kind of the same happened to me. When the company began to go south, they started to delay payments. And when they finally ran out of money, we've been let go but the last, quite substantial payments were not honored and they simply ignored our messages. Luckily things worked out eventually, but I was already getting prepared for not getting paid.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    If you’re in the US, always involve your state’s department of labor. That activates a pack of pitbulls who are more than happy to get your money for you.
- Chris2048 3y ago
  Ok.. but how does that relate to this topic?

notpushkin 3y ago

Screw them over how? If they don't like my work, they can fire me on the spot and just stop paying my invoices. If I do something very shady, they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract (I'm happy if it happens to be their country). > Plus, the tax burden may be that you do more than "your own taxes" but to have an accountant, and probably a company, registered in the relevant country anyway. How does that work? IIRC as a company, you can pay any company or contractor you want (excluding tax havens), and generally it is the contractor's responsibility to pay taxes, unless some physical goods are shipped. (Emphasis on generally, I haven't researched every country's tax laws, but it should work for US and EU.)

Chris2048 3y ago
share confidential information, double-sell their software that you wrote, break some other contractual agreement exceeding the value of your last invoice. > they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract which requires your local jurisdiction to play ball or else you can just ignore it.
- notpushkin 3y ago
  > share confidential information Valid point. > double-sell their software that you wrote Some are indeed producing some innovative code, and might warrant limiting their pool of candidates to their jurisdiction only, but I don't think this is an issue for 95% of engineering jobs out there. > which requires your local jurisdiction to play ball Yeah, this can be a problem if my local jurisdiction is, say, Russia or Iran. Normally this shouldn't be an issue though?
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    > Some are indeed producing some innovative code I think even anything that reveals something about their infra, or customers, would be a problem. > Normally this shouldn't be an issue though? It doesn't have to be impossible, just hard enough to not be worth it e.g. having to hire a foreign lawyer.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Suing someone who lives in the same town as you is already a giant pain in the ass. Figuring out how to do it in another country? Good luck not being screwed by your attorneys, for instance, or even knowing which type to call! Every country has significant and meaningful differences in legal traditions, laws, procedures, etc. For easy examples, try to figure out how to (actually) make a fraud claim against someone in England, France, Russia, and Thailand.
Aurornis 3y ago
> If I do something very shady, they can sue me in the jurisdiction of the contract (I'm happy if it happens to be their country). If you only look at this from the perspective of a good actor who does the right thing and flies to foreign countries to get sued, it's never going to make sense. The thing about bad actors is that they don't play by the rules if they can get away with it. If you're forced to sue someone or press criminal charges, they've likely done something very bad and will just avoid traveling to that country. That is the problem. There is no practical recourse, even if it's theoretically possible to start proceedings against the person.

gj0 3y ago

In my case, my employer fired me because they ran out of funds. The wrong part was that they didn't honour the notice period mentioned in the contract.

notpushkin 3y ago
Yeah, I think in this case the employee / contractor is in the weaker position. Personally, I don't mind, as long as I can get more jobs that way.
myth2018 3y ago
Kind of the same happened to me. When the company began to go south, they started to delay payments. And when they finally ran out of money, we've been let go but the last, quite substantial payments were not honored and they simply ignored our messages. Luckily things worked out eventually, but I was already getting prepared for not getting paid.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  If you’re in the US, always involve your state’s department of labor. That activates a pack of pitbulls who are more than happy to get your money for you.
Chris2048 3y ago
Ok.. but how does that relate to this topic?