5 ms·

The other elephant in the room is that the EU is going to start mandating user-replaceable batteries in consumer electronics, and hopefully the US follows suit

The other elephant in the room is that the EU is going to start mandating user-replaceable batteries in consumer electronics, and hopefully the US follows suit or big tech just decides to do it worldwide. I absolutely despise that Apple made non-replaceable batteries the norm, and most of us have begun to accept this as "the way things have always been". Every cell phone I had before the iPhone came out had an easily replaceable battery before we all became a slave to Ives' "Preciousssss" demands for minimalism. Edit: Folks seem to be misunderstanding why I brought up Apple. I in no way think they are now worse than any other phone manufacturer when it comes to irreplaceable batteries. But AFAIK the iPhone was the first phone to have a glued-in battery, and that has since become the norm. They have essentially helped lead the way in convincing consumers that replacing the battery shouldn't be an easy, user-accessible operation.

theshrike79 3y ago
How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? It's just the easiest way to construct a "modern" phone. Stick the battery in with a 3M Command Strip style sticker and it won't move, construct phone around it. Having to add toolless latches while keeping some kind of IP rating AND not looking like a rugged phone is a whole different thing.
- Raed667 3y ago
  for 1k a piece they better figure it out
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    Now tell me about the $2k Samsung Fold and how user repairable that is: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600#teardownConclusion https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown...
    - Raed667 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      "Back away from the tribalism." This is not an Apple v Google v Samsung issue. I'm in no way saying Google or Samsung is better in any way here, and in many ways Apple has improved their repairability scores over the past few years. The reason I highlighted Apple was because they really led the way in gluing down batteries everywhere, but the problem is definitely industry-wide now.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? How quickly we forget history. I'm not going to say they were the absolute first to do this as I'm not doing a full survey of 2007 phones, but before that (a) there was not a single phone I or my friends had that didn't have a simply replaceable battery and (b) there was a ton of conversation and press when the iPhone was first released about how unique the decision was to have a glued-in battery here. For contrast, here are instructions for replacing the battery on the famous Nokia 3310 https://devices.vodafone.com.au/nokia/3310-2017-proprietary-os/getting-started/change-battery/ https://devices.vodafone.com.au/nokia/3310-2017-proprietary-.... Let's be real here: if having difficult-to-replace batteries was a money loser for Apple and other manufacturers, they would fix the situation in a heartbeat - it's not like this is a hard problem. The only reason they do this is because of desired planned obsolescence - tons of people will think "Oh, getting the battery changed is such a hassle, might as well get a new phone." Again, essentially every consumer electronic device pre-2007 (except maybe some Mac laptops?) had easily-replaceable batteries. Convincing people that using glued-in batteries was a necessary design change, instead of a corporate decision to make more money, was a real coup for corporate marketing.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    The 3310 has a literal IP rating of 00. Compared to a modern iPhone you can throw in a pool and dig out safely a few minutes later. Batteries post 2007 have gotten REALLY good, the capacity/weight ratio has gone up so much that swapping batteries mid-day isn't a thing people do. Drones weren't a big thing in those times because you couldn't get enough power to lift one up. Now a 249 gram DJI drone can fly ~45 minutes on a single battery that's about the size of 2-3 matchboxes. I still remember the laptop I had around that time that had two batteries so that I could swap one and still keep it running with the other. On the other hand my current M2 MacBook lasts for two full workdays without charging easily, even more if I just sit in meetings and don't do anything CPU/GPU intensive.
    - capitainenemo 3y ago
      My Samsung XCover6 pro has a replaceable battery and an IP68 rating. It doesn't seem to be that hard to make the battery replaceable, you just keep it in a separate area from the rest of the water-tight electronics.
ToucanLoucan 3y ago
I mean it isn't just minimalism. It makes waterproofing way easier and allows for sturdier construction in a smaller device when getting said device apart again isn't really a priority. Also who in the world needs all this replacement batteries anyway? I'm still rocking a 13 Pro purchased when new, I have no plans to upgrade and my battery is bloody fine. I still end every day with a good 40% charge at minimum and I'm an app developer, so I'm on my phone for a good solid portion of every day. And prior to this one I had an X which not only didn't have any major battery issues but my wife still used it for another year after I bought my 13, and then, near the tail end of her ownership, STARTED having some battery problems. At the end of year 4 of service as a daily driver.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Also who in the world needs all this replacement batteries anyway? Really?? I get that you personally may not see a need for this, but it takes special kind of blinders to pretend that your experience is universal. Tons of people want replaceable batteries. You're welcome to talk to the iFixit folks if you need more evidence.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    My question wasn't do people want replacement batteries, they clearly do. My question is why they need them? I don't understand how one person's experience with a battery can be so much different than anothers. I would think, if anything, my usage of my phones in my day to day work would mean I'd be harder on phones than most people, not apparently easier.
    - rat9988 3y ago
      In a world where Apple slows down your phone when battery is worn out and considers it fair. It should be fair too to have the ability to replace it.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Can't comment on the details of your experience, but both my Pixel phones and iPhones (albeit earlier gen iPhones) all had significant, noticeable battery degradation between years 2 and 3.
jmspring 3y ago
If the EU does mandate it, like USB-C we will see the corresponding iPhone release tout how they have the greenest batteries and an amazing (same number) X hours of batterylife, but only the greenest battery life. Snark aside and how most phones/etc are put together these days, I see issues in the general population of replacing the battery if it requires opening the case.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Snark aside and how most phones/etc are put together these days, I see issues in the general population of replacing the battery if it requires opening the case. Every phone (before the advent of eSims) used to come with a simple sim-opening tool that made it trivial to open the sim tray. I find it baffling to think that phone manufacturers would find it so difficult to add some teeny screws or other fasteners that could be easily opened with a 2 cent tool that would come with the phone.
  - jmspring 3y ago
    It adds to the cost of goods and probably the manufacturing process. Yes, you used to be able to replace batteries easily. Most are long, thin & flat to go with slimmer phones. Possible, for sure, but we will see.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Apple is one of the most advanced consumer electronics companies on the planet. I may question its utility, but their VR headset is one of the most amazing feats of consumer product engineering I've ever seen. So excuse my scepticism if "replaceable battery" is somehow beyond their engineering and product design prowess.
      - jmspring 3y ago
        I don't doubt they would be able to do so. I think the choice of doing so, maintaining esthetics, and making it such that a layman can do it while not making tradeoffs they don't want to probably play into it.
scarface_74 3y ago
So you’re blaming Apple - with 13% market share worldwide? And I kind of care about waterproof phones. Before you bring up the old Samsungs, if you didn’t put the battery on just right (and Samsung warned you about it), you would lose water resistance.
- eternityforest 3y ago
  They have a small marketshare but an oversized amount of trend setting power. I would imagine nonreplacable batteries would happen without them, but it does seem like every other brand copies whatever crap Apple decides to put out, especially the aesthetics. There are so many very obvious apple clone products.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    And you blame Apple instead of the 87% of the market that can’t come up with better ideas and set “trends”? Including little companies like Google and Samsung? It really seems to infuriate geeks that normal people don’t have their same priorities. Out of the literally dozens of Android manufacturers, if that was something people wanted, wouldn’t someone make it?
thefz 3y ago
[flagged]
thiht 3y ago
> Every cell phone I had before the iPhone came out had an easily replaceable battery I’m not sure how important it is. My first phones with replaceable batteries sucked, the plastic cover would always pop out and was generally a point of failure. And it never did me any good, as most phones died before the battery became an issue. Today I’ve had an iPhone for 3 years and the battery is still going strong. If I need to replace it… I’ll just find someone who can replace it, easy enough. Sure it would be more convenient to be able to do it myself, but if it happens once every 4-5 years I honestly don’t care, and will take the daily convenience of no plastic cover instead.
winter_blue 3y ago
Honestly, at least with Apple, you can go to them and get a battery replacement for $99 (or less), even for pretty ancient iPhone models. I have no idea if other manufacturer with sealed phones have as straightforward a battery replacement experience.

theshrike79 3y ago

How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? It's just the easiest way to construct a "modern" phone. Stick the battery in with a 3M Command Strip style sticker and it won't move, construct phone around it. Having to add toolless latches while keeping some kind of IP rating AND not looking like a rugged phone is a whole different thing.

Raed667 3y ago
for 1k a piece they better figure it out
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Now tell me about the $2k Samsung Fold and how user repairable that is: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600#teardownConclusion https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown...
  - Raed667 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    "Back away from the tribalism." This is not an Apple v Google v Samsung issue. I'm in no way saying Google or Samsung is better in any way here, and in many ways Apple has improved their repairability scores over the past few years. The reason I highlighted Apple was because they really led the way in gluing down batteries everywhere, but the problem is definitely industry-wide now.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? How quickly we forget history. I'm not going to say they were the absolute first to do this as I'm not doing a full survey of 2007 phones, but before that (a) there was not a single phone I or my friends had that didn't have a simply replaceable battery and (b) there was a ton of conversation and press when the iPhone was first released about how unique the decision was to have a glued-in battery here. For contrast, here are instructions for replacing the battery on the famous Nokia 3310 https://devices.vodafone.com.au/nokia/3310-2017-proprietary-os/getting-started/change-battery/ https://devices.vodafone.com.au/nokia/3310-2017-proprietary-.... Let's be real here: if having difficult-to-replace batteries was a money loser for Apple and other manufacturers, they would fix the situation in a heartbeat - it's not like this is a hard problem. The only reason they do this is because of desired planned obsolescence - tons of people will think "Oh, getting the battery changed is such a hassle, might as well get a new phone." Again, essentially every consumer electronic device pre-2007 (except maybe some Mac laptops?) had easily-replaceable batteries. Convincing people that using glued-in batteries was a necessary design change, instead of a corporate decision to make more money, was a real coup for corporate marketing.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  The 3310 has a literal IP rating of 00. Compared to a modern iPhone you can throw in a pool and dig out safely a few minutes later. Batteries post 2007 have gotten REALLY good, the capacity/weight ratio has gone up so much that swapping batteries mid-day isn't a thing people do. Drones weren't a big thing in those times because you couldn't get enough power to lift one up. Now a 249 gram DJI drone can fly ~45 minutes on a single battery that's about the size of 2-3 matchboxes. I still remember the laptop I had around that time that had two batteries so that I could swap one and still keep it running with the other. On the other hand my current M2 MacBook lasts for two full workdays without charging easily, even more if I just sit in meetings and don't do anything CPU/GPU intensive.
  - capitainenemo 3y ago
    My Samsung XCover6 pro has a replaceable battery and an IP68 rating. It doesn't seem to be that hard to make the battery replaceable, you just keep it in a separate area from the rest of the water-tight electronics.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

I mean it isn't just minimalism. It makes waterproofing way easier and allows for sturdier construction in a smaller device when getting said device apart again isn't really a priority. Also who in the world needs all this replacement batteries anyway? I'm still rocking a 13 Pro purchased when new, I have no plans to upgrade and my battery is bloody fine. I still end every day with a good 40% charge at minimum and I'm an app developer, so I'm on my phone for a good solid portion of every day. And prior to this one I had an X which not only didn't have any major battery issues but my wife still used it for another year after I bought my 13, and then, near the tail end of her ownership, STARTED having some battery problems. At the end of year 4 of service as a daily driver.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Also who in the world needs all this replacement batteries anyway? Really?? I get that you personally may not see a need for this, but it takes special kind of blinders to pretend that your experience is universal. Tons of people want replaceable batteries. You're welcome to talk to the iFixit folks if you need more evidence.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  My question wasn't do people want replacement batteries, they clearly do. My question is why they need them? I don't understand how one person's experience with a battery can be so much different than anothers. I would think, if anything, my usage of my phones in my day to day work would mean I'd be harder on phones than most people, not apparently easier.
  - rat9988 3y ago
    In a world where Apple slows down your phone when battery is worn out and considers it fair. It should be fair too to have the ability to replace it.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Can't comment on the details of your experience, but both my Pixel phones and iPhones (albeit earlier gen iPhones) all had significant, noticeable battery degradation between years 2 and 3.

jmspring 3y ago

If the EU does mandate it, like USB-C we will see the corresponding iPhone release tout how they have the greenest batteries and an amazing (same number) X hours of batterylife, but only the greenest battery life. Snark aside and how most phones/etc are put together these days, I see issues in the general population of replacing the battery if it requires opening the case.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Snark aside and how most phones/etc are put together these days, I see issues in the general population of replacing the battery if it requires opening the case. Every phone (before the advent of eSims) used to come with a simple sim-opening tool that made it trivial to open the sim tray. I find it baffling to think that phone manufacturers would find it so difficult to add some teeny screws or other fasteners that could be easily opened with a 2 cent tool that would come with the phone.
- jmspring 3y ago
  It adds to the cost of goods and probably the manufacturing process. Yes, you used to be able to replace batteries easily. Most are long, thin & flat to go with slimmer phones. Possible, for sure, but we will see.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Apple is one of the most advanced consumer electronics companies on the planet. I may question its utility, but their VR headset is one of the most amazing feats of consumer product engineering I've ever seen. So excuse my scepticism if "replaceable battery" is somehow beyond their engineering and product design prowess.
    - jmspring 3y ago
      I don't doubt they would be able to do so. I think the choice of doing so, maintaining esthetics, and making it such that a layman can do it while not making tradeoffs they don't want to probably play into it.

scarface_74 3y ago

So you’re blaming Apple - with 13% market share worldwide? And I kind of care about waterproof phones. Before you bring up the old Samsungs, if you didn’t put the battery on just right (and Samsung warned you about it), you would lose water resistance.

eternityforest 3y ago
They have a small marketshare but an oversized amount of trend setting power. I would imagine nonreplacable batteries would happen without them, but it does seem like every other brand copies whatever crap Apple decides to put out, especially the aesthetics. There are so many very obvious apple clone products.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  And you blame Apple instead of the 87% of the market that can’t come up with better ideas and set “trends”? Including little companies like Google and Samsung? It really seems to infuriate geeks that normal people don’t have their same priorities. Out of the literally dozens of Android manufacturers, if that was something people wanted, wouldn’t someone make it?

thefz 3y ago

[flagged]

thiht 3y ago

> Every cell phone I had before the iPhone came out had an easily replaceable battery I’m not sure how important it is. My first phones with replaceable batteries sucked, the plastic cover would always pop out and was generally a point of failure. And it never did me any good, as most phones died before the battery became an issue. Today I’ve had an iPhone for 3 years and the battery is still going strong. If I need to replace it… I’ll just find someone who can replace it, easy enough. Sure it would be more convenient to be able to do it myself, but if it happens once every 4-5 years I honestly don’t care, and will take the daily convenience of no plastic cover instead.

winter_blue 3y ago

Honestly, at least with Apple, you can go to them and get a battery replacement for $99 (or less), even for pretty ancient iPhone models. I have no idea if other manufacturer with sealed phones have as straightforward a battery replacement experience.