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Ye I dislike them too. I can never learn whether to push or pull the button without mechanical feedback from tightening a wire. It is somewhat easier to start

Ye I dislike them too. I can never learn whether to push or pull the button without mechanical feedback from tightening a wire. It is somewhat easier to start in hills if you are bad at matching the torque. I guess that is the marketing benefit. However of the computer messes up the release you are in a bad spot if e.g. half way stuck in a ditch or whatever. Edit: If you have anti roll back braking the vehicle need to be able to engage the parking brake itself so that the fail state isn't that the car starts to roll again.

giantg2 3y ago
Actually, I've had cars with manual parking brakes that had the anti roll back. So the fail state would be that the car starts to roll again. I've never had it fail though. It doesn't seem like that would be a terrible condition as you'd be back to it being a normal car and you weren't in motion anyways.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  The vehicle starting to randomly roll backwards is quite bad as it might take a while to notice for the driver. Having a roll back protection that can fail like that is probably worse than none at all. It is quite often pedestrians walk between cars in stand still traffic. The driver might also leave the car while on hill hold, which might end badly if the parking brake can't be engaged by the computer. In my experience, features like these need to be very well thought out and seamless, otherwise they confuse and you got no idea what and why stuff happens. I mean, just having a clutch pedal makes the driver intention way more explicit. I don't think the "press the gas thinking it is the brake flipping the car on a wedge in a garage" accidents happen with manual cars at all, since a panicking driver would depress the accelerator and clutch.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    "The vehicle starting to randomly roll backwards is quite bad as it might take a while to notice for the driver." Sure, drivers might be stupid. "The driver might also leave the car while on hill hold," Sure, some drivers might be extremely stupid. I think it would be hard for the computer to figure out if the action was intended or not. Just look at ll the BS with automatic braking when trying to hook up a trailer to tow. There has to be a cutoff somewhere. If it's really a problem, then we need better driver testing is someone is really that dumb. "if the parking brake can't be engaged by the computer." Do any of them actually do this? All the ones I've seen use the regular brakes. Yes, the hill assist was started to help people in a manual on a hill and I agree that there is more intention when using a third pedal. That's the tradeoff - a system that make the physical act easier while removing intention. Yeah, not having the system might be better in some ways. This shouldn't be that dangerous because we're dealing with stopped vehicles and slow speeds. The tradeoff is stopping many newbies from rolling back into the car behind them, vs hopefully tiny number of people who are so stupid as to exit the vehicle in the 1-2 seconds that the brake is still applied. Better to get rid of that last group with stricter testing.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      Ye well I agree in general. It is hard to figure out intention and many cars seem to be on a slippery slope of adding features to protect the user from other features. Except the surprise rollback. I think it is really hard to notice if you don't expect it, if it starts off slowly. A Scania truck will engage the parking brake on hill hold if you disengage the seat belt or turn the engine off. The manual variant just allows hill hold for like 5 seconds and then releases the brakes after some warning sounds. I haven't really tried out how any car with hill hold and electric pbrake behaves when you do strange things, so dunno if any engage the p-brake or locks the transmission.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Interesting. That truck is the first one I've heard of that can do that.
    - joshuanapoli 3y ago
      Tesla automatically engages the parking break if the driver exits the vehicle while stopped.
derekp7 3y ago
On my hybrid Fusion, if I push the button for the parking break while it is moving then it pulses the parking break. Which I suppose is good for a controlled slowing the vehicle down. If it is barely moving then it locks the parking break on and stops instantly, but anything over a few miles an hour gets the pulsing (and slowing) action.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Interesting. Are you sure it actually uses the parking brake though? Do you like hear the "screw motor" (if it is one of those).
  - derekp7 3y ago
    Yes, there is a distinctive sound from the parking break motor that I hear engaging. I only hit the switch one time while moving at moderate speed, as it didn't quite sound that healthy, but noticed that it noticeably started slowing the car while I heard the thump-thump-thump of the parking break going on and off (almost like the sound of anti lock breaks kicking on, but not as powerful of a stop and sound / drag was coming from the back wheels only). Here is their page on it: https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?variantid=6952&languageCode=en&countryCode=USA&Uid=G2122058&ProcUid=G2122060&userMarket=usa&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/Own... Also, if I put it in gear and step on the gas, the parking brake automatically releases (you hear the whir of the motor releasing the brake). Something else -- if it is running in drive and stopped, and you open the door and take your foot off the brake and get out of the car, it automatically shifts into park too. Triggered by engine running, while foot on brake, if you take the seat belt off and open the door and take foot off brake it returns to park.

giantg2 3y ago

Actually, I've had cars with manual parking brakes that had the anti roll back. So the fail state would be that the car starts to roll again. I've never had it fail though. It doesn't seem like that would be a terrible condition as you'd be back to it being a normal car and you weren't in motion anyways.

rightbyte 3y ago
The vehicle starting to randomly roll backwards is quite bad as it might take a while to notice for the driver. Having a roll back protection that can fail like that is probably worse than none at all. It is quite often pedestrians walk between cars in stand still traffic. The driver might also leave the car while on hill hold, which might end badly if the parking brake can't be engaged by the computer. In my experience, features like these need to be very well thought out and seamless, otherwise they confuse and you got no idea what and why stuff happens. I mean, just having a clutch pedal makes the driver intention way more explicit. I don't think the "press the gas thinking it is the brake flipping the car on a wedge in a garage" accidents happen with manual cars at all, since a panicking driver would depress the accelerator and clutch.
- giantg2 3y ago
  "The vehicle starting to randomly roll backwards is quite bad as it might take a while to notice for the driver." Sure, drivers might be stupid. "The driver might also leave the car while on hill hold," Sure, some drivers might be extremely stupid. I think it would be hard for the computer to figure out if the action was intended or not. Just look at ll the BS with automatic braking when trying to hook up a trailer to tow. There has to be a cutoff somewhere. If it's really a problem, then we need better driver testing is someone is really that dumb. "if the parking brake can't be engaged by the computer." Do any of them actually do this? All the ones I've seen use the regular brakes. Yes, the hill assist was started to help people in a manual on a hill and I agree that there is more intention when using a third pedal. That's the tradeoff - a system that make the physical act easier while removing intention. Yeah, not having the system might be better in some ways. This shouldn't be that dangerous because we're dealing with stopped vehicles and slow speeds. The tradeoff is stopping many newbies from rolling back into the car behind them, vs hopefully tiny number of people who are so stupid as to exit the vehicle in the 1-2 seconds that the brake is still applied. Better to get rid of that last group with stricter testing.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Ye well I agree in general. It is hard to figure out intention and many cars seem to be on a slippery slope of adding features to protect the user from other features. Except the surprise rollback. I think it is really hard to notice if you don't expect it, if it starts off slowly. A Scania truck will engage the parking brake on hill hold if you disengage the seat belt or turn the engine off. The manual variant just allows hill hold for like 5 seconds and then releases the brakes after some warning sounds. I haven't really tried out how any car with hill hold and electric pbrake behaves when you do strange things, so dunno if any engage the p-brake or locks the transmission.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Interesting. That truck is the first one I've heard of that can do that.
  - joshuanapoli 3y ago
    Tesla automatically engages the parking break if the driver exits the vehicle while stopped.

derekp7 3y ago

On my hybrid Fusion, if I push the button for the parking break while it is moving then it pulses the parking break. Which I suppose is good for a controlled slowing the vehicle down. If it is barely moving then it locks the parking break on and stops instantly, but anything over a few miles an hour gets the pulsing (and slowing) action.

rightbyte 3y ago
Interesting. Are you sure it actually uses the parking brake though? Do you like hear the "screw motor" (if it is one of those).
- derekp7 3y ago
  Yes, there is a distinctive sound from the parking break motor that I hear engaging. I only hit the switch one time while moving at moderate speed, as it didn't quite sound that healthy, but noticed that it noticeably started slowing the car while I heard the thump-thump-thump of the parking break going on and off (almost like the sound of anti lock breaks kicking on, but not as powerful of a stop and sound / drag was coming from the back wheels only). Here is their page on it: https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?variantid=6952&languageCode=en&countryCode=USA&Uid=G2122058&ProcUid=G2122060&userMarket=usa&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/Own... Also, if I put it in gear and step on the gas, the parking brake automatically releases (you hear the whir of the motor releasing the brake). Something else -- if it is running in drive and stopped, and you open the door and take your foot off the brake and get out of the car, it automatically shifts into park too. Triggered by engine running, while foot on brake, if you take the seat belt off and open the door and take foot off brake it returns to park.