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Use ChatGPT to write and administer 300 personalized oral exams.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
The issue with different exams for each students is that it’s next to impossible to make them equally difficult which ruins the curve.
- btilly 3y ago
  The suggestion was personalized, not different. ChatGPT could have the exact same set of questions to ask. All students are independently taking the same exam at the same time, responding conversationally. ChatGPT asks all of them the same question, and then probes based on weaknesses in the responses. Grades the answer to that question, then moves on to the next. Everyone got equal questions. Is there going to be inconsistency in how minor wording trips different followups? Sure. But it isn't clear that this randomness is worse than the subjective differences in how humans grade an essay response to a question.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Ah yea I could see something like that propping up
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  You've missed the point of curves. Curves exist as a different solution to the problem of "we don't know whether everybody understands the material or not, and we don't know how to evaluate whether they do". It's like saying "The problem with electric cars is that they don't fit the equipment for our emissions test" If you give a pre-written test, you basically need to curve it because you don't really know how well the test aligns with your expectations of the class's understanding of the material. So you say "typically, about 20% of the class doesn't understand the course at all, 20% have a very good grasp..." etc, and then fit the written test results to the expected curve. A one-on-one communication with a student allows you to directly gauge their understanding, allowing you to assign a grade. It doesn't matter how well or poorly the rest of the class understands the material, this student, sitting in front of me, has a "B" level understanding.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    I disagree. The point of curves is to differentiate the students. Students who don’t understand do and the material should be failed, it that doesn’t tell us who should get A vs B vs C
    - pierat 3y ago
      "Do they proficiently understand the topic?" Should be met with a trinary answer: YES, NO, WITHDRAW. We should not encourage stack ranking (or a curve) as a way to stratify students because they joined the class with too many smarter people. Go read up about stack ranking, and why it's a horrific practice. In a "grade on a curve" situation, it benefits you to drop the class if there's too many people you think smarter or more experienced than you. And it benefits you if you're smarter than them. And, thats a REALLY UGLY way to approach education.
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        In the end I guess it comes down to what the point of undergrad is. Imo we have completely left the "learn stuff" era and are in the "differentiate yourself to employers" era. That means that stack ranking is largely the point, even if it has many downsides.

The issue with different exams for each students is that it’s next to impossible to make them equally difficult which ruins the curve.

btilly 3y ago
The suggestion was personalized, not different. ChatGPT could have the exact same set of questions to ask. All students are independently taking the same exam at the same time, responding conversationally. ChatGPT asks all of them the same question, and then probes based on weaknesses in the responses. Grades the answer to that question, then moves on to the next. Everyone got equal questions. Is there going to be inconsistency in how minor wording trips different followups? Sure. But it isn't clear that this randomness is worse than the subjective differences in how humans grade an essay response to a question.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Ah yea I could see something like that propping up
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
You've missed the point of curves. Curves exist as a different solution to the problem of "we don't know whether everybody understands the material or not, and we don't know how to evaluate whether they do". It's like saying "The problem with electric cars is that they don't fit the equipment for our emissions test" If you give a pre-written test, you basically need to curve it because you don't really know how well the test aligns with your expectations of the class's understanding of the material. So you say "typically, about 20% of the class doesn't understand the course at all, 20% have a very good grasp..." etc, and then fit the written test results to the expected curve. A one-on-one communication with a student allows you to directly gauge their understanding, allowing you to assign a grade. It doesn't matter how well or poorly the rest of the class understands the material, this student, sitting in front of me, has a "B" level understanding.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  I disagree. The point of curves is to differentiate the students. Students who don’t understand do and the material should be failed, it that doesn’t tell us who should get A vs B vs C
  - pierat 3y ago
    "Do they proficiently understand the topic?" Should be met with a trinary answer: YES, NO, WITHDRAW. We should not encourage stack ranking (or a curve) as a way to stratify students because they joined the class with too many smarter people. Go read up about stack ranking, and why it's a horrific practice. In a "grade on a curve" situation, it benefits you to drop the class if there's too many people you think smarter or more experienced than you. And it benefits you if you're smarter than them. And, thats a REALLY UGLY way to approach education.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      In the end I guess it comes down to what the point of undergrad is. Imo we have completely left the "learn stuff" era and are in the "differentiate yourself to employers" era. That means that stack ranking is largely the point, even if it has many downsides.