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It's always promises about the future, and never suddenly adding support for old products. Do people have any faith in the these sorts of notices, when nothing

by nilamo 3y ago

It's always promises about the future, and never suddenly adding support for old products. Do people have any faith in the these sorts of notices, when nothing ever produced by the company has yet been supported that long?

xchip 3y ago
why has this comment been downvoted? I think it is a fair point.
- daveoc64 3y ago
  It seems too cynical. Google has supported all of its Nexus/Pixel devices for as long as they have claimed to in the past. The difference now is that the claimed period is longer than before. The claims form part of the advertising and sales material for the product - this is legally binding in many countries.
  - youngtaff 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - daveoc64 3y ago
      You've not read what you are replying to. Google has always honoured the stated support lifetime for its Nexus and Pixel devices.
      - youngtaff 3y ago
        Doesn’t change the fact that Google’s supported lifetime was shit
- notatoad 3y ago
  it's not a fair point, it's factually incorrect. Google has supported plenty of products for longer than seven years. those things just haven't been consumer hardware.
devrand 3y ago
I suspect that given all the partners involved in these projects, it's likely infeasible to go back to those partners and ask for retroactive extended support from all of them. If any of them (or transitively any of your partners' partners) say no, you are likely screwed.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  It's no coincidence that companies that make their own chips have longer support cycles. When a chip is supplied by a vendor and needs to be supported in the kernel, the whole thing can be EoLed by one stubborn vendor. That's one of the promises of Fuchsia - decoupling hardware support from the rest of the system, so you can keep everything else up-to-date even if Qualcomm tells you to kick rocks. https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts#updatable https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts#updatable
kspacewalk2 3y ago
>Do people have any faith in the these sorts of notices, when nothing ever produced by the company has yet been supported that long? Absolutely. If they decided to make this announcement, I have faith that they'll stick with it. Whether Pixel 9, 10, 11 etc. will have similar pledges, we'll have to wait and see.
- jimcsharp 3y ago
  Just a month ago there was news of Google scrapping and not honoring Pixel Pass. You are more generous than I am.
  - alamortsubite 3y ago
    Where did you read that they're not honoring Pixel Pass? Google's support page says they are.
    - wlesieutre 3y ago
      Nobody's getting the phone upgrade after 24 months like the program was supposed to. But that phone would've been paid for by your payments for months 25-48 so that seems fair. It is suggestive of Google's usual approach to supporting their projects though. I'll believe seven years of updates when I see it.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > Just a month ago there was news of Google scrapping and not honoring Pixel Pass. They're still honoring it - they're just not continuing the program after all current subscriptions expire. People who paid for it are still getting what they paid for through the end of their subscription, although because the program is not continuing, your subscription will end at the end of two years. In other words, the Pixel Pass was more or less equivalent to Google's existing 0% APR financing (which is still offered, including on the Pixel 8!). The only difference is that the Pixel Pass autorenewed at the end of 24 months, whereas otherwise you have to manually reorder the next phone with the financing offer[0]. That's different from not delivering the product/service that customers have paid for. The promise of 7 years of updates is legally binding. If Google promises 7 years of updates, and then doesn't deliver those, that will be a violation of both state and federal law (California is now requiring 7 years of updates, and it is additionally a violation of federal law to advertise a product with a service, sell that product, and then fail to deliver that service). [0] The 0% APR financing offer is actually now slightly better than the Pixel Pass, because on the Pixel 8 it's now amortized over 3 years instead of two (which is new - previously it was amortized over 2 years).
youngtaff 3y ago
This! Why just announce it for new devices, why not announce existing devices will also get updates Says someone with a perfectly good Pixel 4a that isn’t guaranteed updated after it’s three years old (which happened in Aug ‘23)
- celsoazevedo 3y ago
  It would be nice if they did that, but if you pay for 3 years of support, then you should only expect 3 years of support. Google is clear about this and haven't failed so far: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705
  - burkaman 3y ago
    "Clear" is pretty generous, I only discovered that support page one month ago when I saw someone mention that the Pixel 5 will end support this month. It is obviously not ever mentioned during the purchase process, and it's not proactively communicated to customers. I bought a Pixel 5 less than 2.5 years ago, I didn't even consider the possibility that it could be EOL so early so I never sought out that page. I've never had another phone or laptop last such a short time.
    - usea 3y ago
      Although I do think google will probably follow through with their support claim, at least in some technical way. I also believe you're completely correct about this point. It's a small sample, but I've told around 8 people over the years about the support life of various nexus and pixel phones specifically (in casual conversations with job interviewers, coworkers, and strangers about our phones). Zero people have already known about it. The most common reaction is that I am just mistaken, they would never do that.
      - burkaman 3y ago
        It's very frustrating. The phone works perfectly well and probably will for years, and it would be incredibly wasteful to buy a new one now, but at some point it will be irresponsible to keep using a phone that hasn't gotten security updates in years. I would never have bought it if they advertised a 2.5 year lifetime (and obviously they knew that).
HumblyTossed 3y ago
They would have to get Qualcomm on board and that seems like something they have traditionally been reluctant to do. Edit: Remember, we are only a few iterations in on the Tensor.
ShakataGaNai 3y ago
In general, yes, but google specifically, no. When a company has a decent track record I'm willing to accept on faith that they will do what they say, or at least try to get close to it. Yes, business reality may change in that time. However, Google has repeatedly demonstrated that they'll sell you something only to kill it off very quickly. They're great at innovating cool new ideas and absolutely terrible at getting anyone to maintain those ideas. And you can see that based on their hiring. They want the best of the best, people who want to do nothing but blaze new trails. Maintenance? Techdebt? No... not for these esteemed engineers. Which leaves... basically no one at Google to mop up after.
shepherdjerred 3y ago
Google doesn't have a history of lying about how long products will be supported.

by nilamo 3y ago

xchip 3y ago

why has this comment been downvoted? I think it is a fair point.

daveoc64 3y ago
It seems too cynical. Google has supported all of its Nexus/Pixel devices for as long as they have claimed to in the past. The difference now is that the claimed period is longer than before. The claims form part of the advertising and sales material for the product - this is legally binding in many countries.
- youngtaff 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - daveoc64 3y ago
    You've not read what you are replying to. Google has always honoured the stated support lifetime for its Nexus and Pixel devices.
    - youngtaff 3y ago
      Doesn’t change the fact that Google’s supported lifetime was shit
notatoad 3y ago
it's not a fair point, it's factually incorrect. Google has supported plenty of products for longer than seven years. those things just haven't been consumer hardware.

devrand 3y ago

I suspect that given all the partners involved in these projects, it's likely infeasible to go back to those partners and ask for retroactive extended support from all of them. If any of them (or transitively any of your partners' partners) say no, you are likely screwed.

bsimpson 3y ago
It's no coincidence that companies that make their own chips have longer support cycles. When a chip is supplied by a vendor and needs to be supported in the kernel, the whole thing can be EoLed by one stubborn vendor. That's one of the promises of Fuchsia - decoupling hardware support from the rest of the system, so you can keep everything else up-to-date even if Qualcomm tells you to kick rocks. https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts#updatable https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts#updatable

kspacewalk2 3y ago

>Do people have any faith in the these sorts of notices, when nothing ever produced by the company has yet been supported that long? Absolutely. If they decided to make this announcement, I have faith that they'll stick with it. Whether Pixel 9, 10, 11 etc. will have similar pledges, we'll have to wait and see.

jimcsharp 3y ago
Just a month ago there was news of Google scrapping and not honoring Pixel Pass. You are more generous than I am.
- alamortsubite 3y ago
  Where did you read that they're not honoring Pixel Pass? Google's support page says they are.
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    Nobody's getting the phone upgrade after 24 months like the program was supposed to. But that phone would've been paid for by your payments for months 25-48 so that seems fair. It is suggestive of Google's usual approach to supporting their projects though. I'll believe seven years of updates when I see it.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Just a month ago there was news of Google scrapping and not honoring Pixel Pass. They're still honoring it - they're just not continuing the program after all current subscriptions expire. People who paid for it are still getting what they paid for through the end of their subscription, although because the program is not continuing, your subscription will end at the end of two years. In other words, the Pixel Pass was more or less equivalent to Google's existing 0% APR financing (which is still offered, including on the Pixel 8!). The only difference is that the Pixel Pass autorenewed at the end of 24 months, whereas otherwise you have to manually reorder the next phone with the financing offer[0]. That's different from not delivering the product/service that customers have paid for. The promise of 7 years of updates is legally binding. If Google promises 7 years of updates, and then doesn't deliver those, that will be a violation of both state and federal law (California is now requiring 7 years of updates, and it is additionally a violation of federal law to advertise a product with a service, sell that product, and then fail to deliver that service). [0] The 0% APR financing offer is actually now slightly better than the Pixel Pass, because on the Pixel 8 it's now amortized over 3 years instead of two (which is new - previously it was amortized over 2 years).

youngtaff 3y ago

This! Why just announce it for new devices, why not announce existing devices will also get updates Says someone with a perfectly good Pixel 4a that isn’t guaranteed updated after it’s three years old (which happened in Aug ‘23)

celsoazevedo 3y ago
It would be nice if they did that, but if you pay for 3 years of support, then you should only expect 3 years of support. Google is clear about this and haven't failed so far: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705
- burkaman 3y ago
  "Clear" is pretty generous, I only discovered that support page one month ago when I saw someone mention that the Pixel 5 will end support this month. It is obviously not ever mentioned during the purchase process, and it's not proactively communicated to customers. I bought a Pixel 5 less than 2.5 years ago, I didn't even consider the possibility that it could be EOL so early so I never sought out that page. I've never had another phone or laptop last such a short time.
  - usea 3y ago
    Although I do think google will probably follow through with their support claim, at least in some technical way. I also believe you're completely correct about this point. It's a small sample, but I've told around 8 people over the years about the support life of various nexus and pixel phones specifically (in casual conversations with job interviewers, coworkers, and strangers about our phones). Zero people have already known about it. The most common reaction is that I am just mistaken, they would never do that.
    - burkaman 3y ago
      It's very frustrating. The phone works perfectly well and probably will for years, and it would be incredibly wasteful to buy a new one now, but at some point it will be irresponsible to keep using a phone that hasn't gotten security updates in years. I would never have bought it if they advertised a 2.5 year lifetime (and obviously they knew that).

HumblyTossed 3y ago

They would have to get Qualcomm on board and that seems like something they have traditionally been reluctant to do. Edit: Remember, we are only a few iterations in on the Tensor.

ShakataGaNai 3y ago

In general, yes, but google specifically, no. When a company has a decent track record I'm willing to accept on faith that they will do what they say, or at least try to get close to it. Yes, business reality may change in that time. However, Google has repeatedly demonstrated that they'll sell you something only to kill it off very quickly. They're great at innovating cool new ideas and absolutely terrible at getting anyone to maintain those ideas. And you can see that based on their hiring. They want the best of the best, people who want to do nothing but blaze new trails. Maintenance? Techdebt? No... not for these esteemed engineers. Which leaves... basically no one at Google to mop up after.

shepherdjerred 3y ago

Google doesn't have a history of lying about how long products will be supported.