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I feel like the elephant in the room is that there's no phone battery that's going to stay useful in anywhere close to that time frame, and replacing phone batt

by wheels 3y ago

I feel like the elephant in the room is that there's no phone battery that's going to stay useful in anywhere close to that time frame, and replacing phone batteries is usually a losing proposition. I've tried, several times. Fake, low-quality batteries are rampant (usually degrading within weeks), and genuine ones are prohibitively expensive -- usually a significant fraction of the cost of a new phone.

willk 3y ago
My wife successfully replaced her Pixel 6's batter with the iFixit kit. I think the kit was $50. It probably took 3 hours for her.
- kwiens 3y ago
  You are correct. We sell the Pixel 6 repair kit with an OEM battery for $50 and just the battery for $43. We'll be stocking Pixel 8 parts soon. https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genuine https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genui...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - saltcured 3y ago
    But for how long will good batteries be stocked for older phones? My frustrating experience with lots of older tech like cameras and laptops is that the battery formats are constantly changing, and none are being manufactured in the required format 5+ years later, when I'd really want a fresh battery. So even though it is designed for easy field replacement, it is effectively obsolete because the only product available is some dodgy counterfeit part. You never know if it even meets the specs, avoids being a fire hazard, and isn't an outright fraud like relabeled old batteries...
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  The fact that it took a 3rd party tool, which cost $50, and 3 hours to change an f'in phone battery is so beyond bonkers nuts. To emphasize, just commenting on the grossly insane state of non-replaceable/difficult-to-replace batteries in phones and laptops and the guaranteed planned obsolescence it entails. For contrast, it took me 10 minutes to change the battery in my car.
  - alamortsubite 3y ago
    You're right that it should be easier to replace a phone's battery than your car's, but it's not $50 for the tool, it's $50 for the factory battery from Google. The kits basically get tossed in more-or-less for free. Also, it really doesn't take three hours to swap a phone battery, even in our sad state of planned-obsolescence affairs. That's pretty extreme. As I wrote elsewhere in the thread, I did an iPhone and an Android last year and each took less than a half hour. The iPhone was fiddlier, but it was also the first I'd done. The Motorola was surprisingly forgiving. But I agree, gluing mass-market devices together is bonkers and only benefits the manufacturers.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Ahh, thanks for the correction, I thought the $50 only included the tool.
  - pastor_williams 3y ago
    The battery and the kit together cost $50. The kit seems to cost about $7 based on the price of just the battery: https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genuine?variant=39752277590119 https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genui... The replacement guide suggests about an hour to complete the task. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+6+Battery+Replacement/148798 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+6+Battery+Replacem... For contrast, some people need YouTube videos with step-by-step instructions to even open the hood of their car. They will take far longer to replace a car battery than it took you. Likely they'll also need to purchase a screwdriver.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
- Zambyte 3y ago
  That's wildly expensive and time consuming to do something as simple and normal as replacing a battery
user568439 3y ago
I got my iPhone 6s life extended 2 more years with a non official battery. It degraded faster than the original one but also the OS updates probably caused more consumption after using the same model for 6 years
- p1mrx 3y ago
  > iPhone 6s life extended 2 more years with a non official battery Apple fixed that glitch: https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/802054/Unable+to+verify+this+iPhone+has+a+genuine+Apple+battery https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/802054/Unable+to+verify+....
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    Exactly what glitch is fixed here? Is there a problem with highlighting to a customer that the battery may not be authentic? They aren't preventing you from installing aftermarket batteries at all... This works just as well on a 6s as it does on the brand new ones.
    - p1mrx 3y ago
      The "glitch" was users replacing batteries without giving Apple a revenue stream. You are correct that it's still technically possible to replace a battery yourself, if you don't mind the Shareware-style nagging.
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        Shareware-style nagging? You get the pop-up when you boot the phone... then you can just dismiss it. What are you talking about? The notification in the Settings forever seems fully appropriate, since that is something I would want to know if I was buying a phone from someone.
reisse 3y ago
This hasn't been my experience. Chinese battery tech become much better in the recent years. I've replaced battery in my Pixel 3 with an 8$ knock-off from AliExpress with good reviews and it's performing just as original, both subjectively and by AccuBattery metrics.
- sd8f9iu 3y ago
  Same for me, I paid someone to replace my Pixel 3 battery for $40 and have had nothing but a positive experience. It saved me ~$400 on a new phone, I'd gladly do it again.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
I suppose it depends on how long they sell this model. If they continue to offer it for three years, you may be getting a new battery, but the support clock has been ticking the entire time.
grumpwagon 3y ago
Google has partnered with iFixit to offer genuine replacement parts for all Pixel models for a couple of years, including batteries.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Szpadel 3y ago
i charge my phone to only 70% and my previous phone (pixel 2xl) after about 5 years of usage had still about 95% of capacity I'm using Accu battery app for alerting when my battery is charged and chargie dongle to cut power when I want to just plug phone for night
- RealityVoid 3y ago
  Huh, I had a pixel 4 that I just loved, but the battery got so so so bad I would need to charge it after about half of a day, so I just had to give up on it.
- exhilaration 3y ago
  https://chargie.org/ https://chargie.org/ Interesting product, thanks for mentioning it, you can limit how much you charge your phone battery the same way as a Tesla.
  - jamesdwilson 3y ago
    don't all smartphones limit charging these days?
    - aembleton 3y ago
      My Pixel 7 doesn't. It'll slowly charge to 100% if you plugin overnight and have an alarm set, but most of the time I don't need more than 80% as I'm usually at home.
- sensanaty 3y ago
  At least on my Pixel 7, it doesn't actually charge it all the way if I plug it in at night. It will charge until 80%, then very slowly over the course of the night until my first alarm (of many, I'm a heavy sleeper lol) it'll get itself to 100%. Phones these days take good care of their own batteries, 100% doesn't actually mean 100%, same with 0% since both are extremely bad for Li-ion batteries.
- fckgw 3y ago
alamortsubite 3y ago
I replaced the batteries in my mom's iPhone and dad's Motorola at about the same time last year. I agree it should be easier to do, but it's definitely not a losing proposition. They both turned out very well and cost < $20 each. I'd love a return to the old snap-fit plastic cases. Besides the ease of battery replacement, those phones seemed much more durable. Maybe because there was something that gave way on impact? I remember watching in horror as the plastic cover of an old LG shot under the display shelving at Home Depot at approximately the same speed the phone hit the concrete floor. I never used a case with one of those phones, nor did I ever crack a screen. It was tricky digging that cover out from under the shelving, however.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  When you refer to snap-fit plastic cases being more durable, I presume you're not talking about water and dust resistance.
  - hollander 3y ago
    You can't have it all
    - elabajaba 3y ago
      Galaxy S5 had a removable battery and IP67 rating 9 years ago.
      - usrusr 3y ago
        Motorola Defy did the same 13 years ago. Loved the size and the white frame design, would buy a remake with modern chips and camera without hesitation.
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      Right. You can't have the thinnest/sleekest possible phone and an easily removable battery. Have to choose. Frustrating thing is, mainstream phone manufacturers don't give you a choice. There's no option to buy e.g. an a slightly more ruggedized iPhone that is 15% bulkier but gives you easy battery access. That's a thing I'd buy, even if it cost a bit more. The quest for "sleekness at all costs" made more sense 15-20 years ago, when full-spec smartphones and laptops were clunkier. Hopefully the tide is turning. Apple is offering beefier and thicker laptops (M1/M2 Macbook Pros) and likewise now gives buyers an option for a beefier "Explorer Edition" watch. No battery access sadly. But hopefully the pendulum might swing the other way a little now.
LunarAurora 3y ago
Well, if this trend of longer updates gets adopted, then the EU regulation on compulsory replaceable batteries will make even more sense.
jmull 3y ago
> usually a significant fraction of the cost of a new phone For my phone a battery replacement from the manufacturer is right at 10% the price of what's probably the equivalent new phone. (Not that I'm having battery issues yet for my ~2yr old phone.) To me that's well within the range of being worth it vs. a new phone. I don't have a Pixel, though, so maybe it's different.
afavour 3y ago
Apple charges, what, $90 for a battery replacement? I don't consider that a significant fraction of the cost of a new phone. Admittedly, once you're in year six of phone ownership it's going to look pretty bad compared to newer devices but I'm not sure what can really be done about that.
- ChrisLTD 3y ago
  What's annoying if that Apple will only replace a battery if they deem your battery bad enough for replacement. I had an iPad that only last 90 minutes on battery power and I couldn't pay them to replace it because the battery passed their diagnostic tests.
  - SirMaster 3y ago
    Go to an Apple authorized repair shop. They will replace it if you simply pay them to, and they are cheaper than Apple while using the same authorized parts.
prmoustache 3y ago
Even if it was half the price of the brand new phone it would still be worth replacing the battery several times.
g232089 3y ago
According to https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement battery replacement for the iPhone 6s which came out 7 years ago is $ 69.
- KeplerBoy 3y ago
  which is about what an iPhone 6s is worth. Repairing such an old phone is not worth it. The sweet spot would be putting a new battery into a 3 year old phone to get another 3 years out of it.
  - nsriv 3y ago
    The value judgment of "not worth it" is relative to perceived improvement in getting a new phone, but for many people the judgment is "can I get a new phone for $69?" Outside of carrier subsidies in the US, that's still not possible.
    - KeplerBoy 3y ago
      But you can get a better phone with great battery life for 250$. Motorola and many other manufacturers sell perfectly usable devices with 5000 mAh batteries for that price.
      - HansHamster 3y ago
        And you can get an even better phone by spending 900$! /s
      - llbeansandrice 3y ago
        Why would you switch platforms, form factors, OSs, etc. for +4x the cost of a battery in the ecosystem you already know?
        KeplerBoy 3y ago
        because that iphone 6s is EOL no matter the battery. If you don't want to drop the money for a recent-ish iPhone you have to switch. Not that 1000$ are a bad deal for an iPhone that will easily last you 4+ years.
capitainenemo 3y ago
This was one of the reasons I selected the Samsung XCover6 pro. It still has a replaceable battery. It is also remarkably sturdy, which has paid off since mine has been dropped on concrete from hip height twice now with no additional phone protector and with no visible damage (apart from nicks in the plastic edge). It might be that the fact that the back explodes off on impact helps dissipate some of the energy? It is a relatively rugged phone for the slim profile though. Another nice thing about the replaceable battery is being able to keep a spare around for quick recharge.
- hnburnsy 3y ago
  Great tip!
h4l 3y ago
The EU are requiring phones to have user-replaceable batteries (no tools) from 2027. Hopefully batteries will stop being a problem soon. https://mashable.com/article/replaceable-batteries-smartphones-iphones-2027 https://mashable.com/article/replaceable-batteries-smartphon...
- ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
  There are exceptions for water proof devices and batteries having a capacity of 80% with 1000 cycles.
  - onli 3y ago
    There were two recent types of EU regulations. One was broader, but had these exceptions, the other one hits phones and had no exceptions (that I noticed when it was last discussed). See https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...
- theshrike79 3y ago
  It doesn't say "no tools" it says: > A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.[0] So, for example, Apple's chunky multi step DIY battery swap kit is perfectly allowable if it's provided for free. "Commercially available tools" also includes stuff like Torx screws. So, again, the current system by most manufacturers is doable with very minor modifications. Open a few Torx screws, slowly pull off the command strip sticker under the battery, replace new battery, done. The HN/Reddit crowd's minds went right back to the 90s and 00s where you could (and had to) carry 3 separate batteries and could swap them on the go, which isn't the goal of this regulation at all. [0] https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT... - article 11
  - 3y ago
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
I have a Samsung J3 Prime from 2017. That's 6 years or so. Still entirely usable, with one or two small caveats. I got new batteries for the phone in 2018, and have not had to do so again.
lolbase 3y ago
Apple will replace batteries for iPhone 5s and up, for $69-89 in the US. No issues with fakes or low quality. People who want to do some work themselves can buy replacement kits from reputable part suppliers for $29-59. Your problem only occurs if somebody wants to do the work themselves _and_ they think they can source the parts without assistance from a reputable part supplier.
CountHackulus 3y ago
My OnePlus6T just hit 5 years old and the battery is plenty usable. I just slow charge it at night every night. Is it as good as it was when new? No. Is it still perfectly usable? Absolutely.
- boruto 3y ago
  My one plus 5t too. Absolutely working like a the day I bought it. Other than vanity and updates I don't see no reason to buy a new phone.
willseth 3y ago
I don't know what Pixel replacement batteries cost, but Apple typically charges a flat $89 to replace an out of warranty battery, less than 10% of the cost of a new phone, which is a totally reasonable proposition if you think you can get at least another year out of your phone. Unless Pixels are dramatically more expensive, then this doesn't check out at all.
- KolmogorovComp 3y ago
  I think the point of the OP is that after ~5 years (when you have to change your battery), your iPhone is not worth $890 dollars anymore, but more like $200-$300, out of which $89 is a significant portion.
  - _aavaa_ 3y ago
    Except this analysis is flawed since you're not going to find a new equivalent replacement for 200-300$
    - argsnd 3y ago
      After 5 years you might...
      - _aavaa_ 3y ago
        Apple does not sell a 200$ phone. And 200$ android phones do not have the build quality of an 800$ one, even if it's 5 years old.
        turtlebits 3y ago
        You can find carrier locked iPhone SE's for $150, you can get a free iPhone with a postpaid contract as well.
      - BossingAround 3y ago
        A 2nd hand one, that'll suffer the same battery issues at best
rkagerer 3y ago
Even if properly replacing the battery costs 2/3rds of a new phone, I'd be happy to pay that a couple times over its lifetime to squeeze extra years out of it and reduce how often I have to go through the gruelling process of successfully migrating everything over to a new phone (it's a real pain for those who prefer to avoid forking your data over to Google, which I gather is required by the built-in options like cloud backups and D2D transfer).
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > gruelling process of successfully migrating I hate this. Why do I have to relogin to every app on a new phone? Why are some apps missing after every migration? Why do some apps just randomly lose all config and settings and force you to set them up again? I want Google/Apple to force app devs to make backup and restore seamless. Like, if I am halfway through typing this comment on HN and then lightning fries my phone, when I restore to a new phone I want the exact same chrome tabs open with the same half-written comment. I don't want to have to battle to re-pair my printer or watch. I don't want stupid cookie warnings on every website again. I don't want to have to retrain every single fingerprint. I don't want to yet again opt out of data collection. I don't want to re-accept the same T&C's for photo backup I already agreed to last year, and the year before, and 10 years before that. Please... just make migration work the way it should have always worked.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Google/Apple management could make this happen. All they have to do is have a big bin of phones outside the weekly team all-hands meeting. Everyone must throw their phone in before the meeting. At the end, everyone takes a random phone, resets it, and logs in. While engineers refuse to do that, the process is still too cumbersome.
    - rkagerer 3y ago
      Best suggestion I've heard all week. Maybe it would finally realize my desire to cleanly keep a constantly-synced "hot standby" phone ready for deployment in case my primary one is lost. (Even better both would "just work" so I could grab either one on any day).
napierzaza 3y ago
[dead]
molticrystal 3y ago
I have a nexus 6p with a battery charging to 60% and the battery is on year 4 right now, runs android 11, and seems to have no end in sight for the battery. The phone itself is 2015 I got from a relative who bought a Pixel 3. So battery if handled properly will last a very long time. So while battery issues can't be dismissed, at least it often can be replaced or otherwise worked around. The bigger issue is storage errors and being permanently locked out. The Google Pixel 3 phone he bought died after 2 years due to the operating system not properly handling errors in the non-volatile storage, which is a very common error in Pixel 3/3XL/4 and maybe future ones as well. Google doesn't offer the firehose so owners are out of luck not able to reformat or recover the phones at all and completely locked out by the qualcomm bootloader with phones stuck in EDL mode. Google Pixel 3 EDL to see how prevalent the problem is, and google just doesn't care to help people fix the issue.
- fluidcruft 3y ago
  I woke up one day thinking I had that problem with my Pixel 3. Literally all the things described were going on and I was about to throw in the towel and rage post to reddit, but then I had a brief showerthought that maybe the battery was bad and the charging firmware was being retarded. Pixel 3 had this habit of autobooting when charging from dead when it thinks the battery has made it far enough to survive boot... it boots into this "battery charging" mode and then it will boot up when that's gotten far enough. But when its wrong (because the battery is dying) it never has enough power to make it past some initialization stage. Ultimately I "fixed" it by draining the battery completely (until the phone would not respond to anything) and then plugging it in to charge and watching it like a hawk to jump in and long-press power to force shutdown immediately when it tried to boot to keep it in powered-off charging (not the mini-boot it does where it shows you battery charge). It happened a second time and after rescuing it again, I replaced the battery and all was good.
fluidcruft 3y ago
I've replaced batteries very successfully on Nexus and Pixel phones. They're usually $30-$40 or so... I have gotten crappy batteries from Amazon but I've never had a problem with ifixit supplies. And if you're not into doing it yourself, you can just take them to Asurion or whatever. I'd be totally shocked if battery replacement costs more than $100... so nowhere near the $400-$700 original price of the phone. If you're comparing the battery to the resale value of the phone, maybe you have a point. But you're not buying a used phone with a fresh battery, either. Batteries generally cause enough issues that I plan on replacing them every three years.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
The other elephant in the room is that the EU is going to start mandating user-replaceable batteries in consumer electronics, and hopefully the US follows suit or big tech just decides to do it worldwide. I absolutely despise that Apple made non-replaceable batteries the norm, and most of us have begun to accept this as "the way things have always been". Every cell phone I had before the iPhone came out had an easily replaceable battery before we all became a slave to Ives' "Preciousssss" demands for minimalism. Edit: Folks seem to be misunderstanding why I brought up Apple. I in no way think they are now worse than any other phone manufacturer when it comes to irreplaceable batteries. But AFAIK the iPhone was the first phone to have a glued-in battery, and that has since become the norm. They have essentially helped lead the way in convincing consumers that replacing the battery shouldn't be an easy, user-accessible operation.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? It's just the easiest way to construct a "modern" phone. Stick the battery in with a 3M Command Strip style sticker and it won't move, construct phone around it. Having to add toolless latches while keeping some kind of IP rating AND not looking like a rugged phone is a whole different thing.
  - Raed667 3y ago
    for 1k a piece they better figure it out
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      Now tell me about the $2k Samsung Fold and how user repairable that is: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600#teardownConclusion https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown...
      - Raed667 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
azangru 3y ago
> there's no phone battery that's going to stay useful in anywhere close to that time frame I am writing this on a six-year-old Android phone. Still same battery. It lasts me through the day of light usage, including about three hours of podcasts/youtube playback during commute.
notatoad 3y ago
i don't think this needs to be the elephant in the room. batteries have a lifespan, and that's unavoidable, so it makes sense that battery degredation might be the thing that causes the end of your phone's life. software doesn't necessarily have a finite lifespan, so it shouldn't be the thing that causes the end of your hardware. providing seven years of updates is long enough that it probably means the software EOL won't have to be the reason to stop using your phone. that's how it should be.
ShakataGaNai 3y ago
Not true. There are plenty of people, like my mother, who are perfectly happy using a 5 or 6 year old phone. Does it still make calls, send texts and allow them to access some assortment of apps? Good enough. Is the battery shot? Totally, she's got it plugged into the wall, a battery or the car at least 50% of the day now. Doesn't care, it's good enough. My mother has zero desire to upgrade. I told her in another year her phone may no longer be supported by the latest iOS, in which case she was getting a forced upgrade (by me). Because everyone's phone has becomes the center of their lives and security of that device is of the utmost importance.
tgsovlerkhgsel 3y ago
The EU is mandating 80% capacity after 1000 cycles or a user-replaceable battery. Assuming you drain half the battery on an average day, that'd be over 5 years, and 80% is still more than I'd need. Assuming they actually enforce the law, of course.
wcarss 3y ago
I'm using a phone right now that I bought in 2016. The battery lasts me the day more or less. I bought a pixel just recently because Slack told me my phone is too old for them to support, and I need it for work. The camera is messed up on this phone, but otherwise, I would happily keep it another few years.
pbnjeh 3y ago
A friend still uses their iPhone 6 as their daily driver, with its original battery. The battery has lost some capacity, but not so much that they are constantly worried about recharging it. And yes, I've told them they need to replace it -- for security, if no other reason. But, they are a teacher (a very good and dedicated one, I'll add), and money's tight.
SirMaster 3y ago
Where are you buying batteries that are a significant portion of the price of a phone? For iPhones, authorized battery repairs around usually around $70 which is about 6-10% of the price of a new iPhone. Is $70 really so much to pay for a battery that should easily last you 3 years or so?
ocdtrekkie 3y ago
The real elephant in the room is that Google has claimed a commitment to this or that for X number of years so many times and changed their minds it isn't even funny. They just killed a Pixel support program last month before ever fulfilling the commitment they made for it... Nobody should buy this marketing line unless they have a contract guaranteeing some penalty for Google for failing to uphold this.
Helmut10001 3y ago
I've replaced batteries on my HTC HD2 5 times. It lasted 12 years, until the touch sensor died. I really miss this phone.
greesil 3y ago
Wait until 2027 https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...
kelnos 3y ago
Is that really the case? Maybe if you DIY the replacement? When my Pixel 4 battery started expanding (and popped the back off the phone) 2 years ago, I contacted a local repair guy who came to my house and replaced the battery for me for $80. That was 2 years ago and the battery has been fine since. It's certainly degraded a bit over those 2 years, but no more than I'd expect. I still get a full day of charge out of it, and then some. Yes, we absolutely need to be in a place where DIY battery replacements are reliable and cheap. But using a local repair shop seems to be a perfectly fine alternative for now.
nfriedly 3y ago
I had pretty good experience with replacing the battery in a pixel 2 with one from iFixit. On the other hand, the iPod touch battery that I got off eBay only lasted about 6 months before refused to charge.
r00fus 3y ago
Disagree that battery replacement is prohibitive. Current cost to replace battery on my iPhone 12 Pro Max is $90 ($100 for a newer one, $70 for older ones). I definitely replaced batteries on my family's iPhones when they ran the discounted battery replacement special. My phone is at 85% health and still manages to get through the day but paying $90 instead of buying another phone is a good deal for me for say, 2-3 years of additional use.

by wheels 3y ago

willk 3y ago

My wife successfully replaced her Pixel 6's batter with the iFixit kit. I think the kit was $50. It probably took 3 hours for her.

kwiens 3y ago
You are correct. We sell the Pixel 6 repair kit with an OEM battery for $50 and just the battery for $43. We'll be stocking Pixel 8 parts soon. https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genuine https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genui...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- saltcured 3y ago
  But for how long will good batteries be stocked for older phones? My frustrating experience with lots of older tech like cameras and laptops is that the battery formats are constantly changing, and none are being manufactured in the required format 5+ years later, when I'd really want a fresh battery. So even though it is designed for easy field replacement, it is effectively obsolete because the only product available is some dodgy counterfeit part. You never know if it even meets the specs, avoids being a fire hazard, and isn't an outright fraud like relabeled old batteries...
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
The fact that it took a 3rd party tool, which cost $50, and 3 hours to change an f'in phone battery is so beyond bonkers nuts. To emphasize, just commenting on the grossly insane state of non-replaceable/difficult-to-replace batteries in phones and laptops and the guaranteed planned obsolescence it entails. For contrast, it took me 10 minutes to change the battery in my car.
- alamortsubite 3y ago
  You're right that it should be easier to replace a phone's battery than your car's, but it's not $50 for the tool, it's $50 for the factory battery from Google. The kits basically get tossed in more-or-less for free. Also, it really doesn't take three hours to swap a phone battery, even in our sad state of planned-obsolescence affairs. That's pretty extreme. As I wrote elsewhere in the thread, I did an iPhone and an Android last year and each took less than a half hour. The iPhone was fiddlier, but it was also the first I'd done. The Motorola was surprisingly forgiving. But I agree, gluing mass-market devices together is bonkers and only benefits the manufacturers.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Ahh, thanks for the correction, I thought the $50 only included the tool.
- pastor_williams 3y ago
  The battery and the kit together cost $50. The kit seems to cost about $7 based on the price of just the battery: https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genuine?variant=39752277590119 https://www.ifixit.com/products/google-pixel-6-battery-genui... The replacement guide suggests about an hour to complete the task. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+6+Battery+Replacement/148798 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+6+Battery+Replacem... For contrast, some people need YouTube videos with step-by-step instructions to even open the hood of their car. They will take far longer to replace a car battery than it took you. Likely they'll also need to purchase a screwdriver.
- theshrike79 3y ago
Zambyte 3y ago
That's wildly expensive and time consuming to do something as simple and normal as replacing a battery

user568439 3y ago

I got my iPhone 6s life extended 2 more years with a non official battery. It degraded faster than the original one but also the OS updates probably caused more consumption after using the same model for 6 years

p1mrx 3y ago
> iPhone 6s life extended 2 more years with a non official battery Apple fixed that glitch: https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/802054/Unable+to+verify+this+iPhone+has+a+genuine+Apple+battery https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/802054/Unable+to+verify+....
- Kirby64 3y ago
  Exactly what glitch is fixed here? Is there a problem with highlighting to a customer that the battery may not be authentic? They aren't preventing you from installing aftermarket batteries at all... This works just as well on a 6s as it does on the brand new ones.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    The "glitch" was users replacing batteries without giving Apple a revenue stream. You are correct that it's still technically possible to replace a battery yourself, if you don't mind the Shareware-style nagging.
    - Kirby64 3y ago
      Shareware-style nagging? You get the pop-up when you boot the phone... then you can just dismiss it. What are you talking about? The notification in the Settings forever seems fully appropriate, since that is something I would want to know if I was buying a phone from someone.

reisse 3y ago

This hasn't been my experience. Chinese battery tech become much better in the recent years. I've replaced battery in my Pixel 3 with an 8$ knock-off from AliExpress with good reviews and it's performing just as original, both subjectively and by AccuBattery metrics.

sd8f9iu 3y ago
Same for me, I paid someone to replace my Pixel 3 battery for $40 and have had nothing but a positive experience. It saved me ~$400 on a new phone, I'd gladly do it again.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

I suppose it depends on how long they sell this model. If they continue to offer it for three years, you may be getting a new battery, but the support clock has been ticking the entire time.

grumpwagon 3y ago

Google has partnered with iFixit to offer genuine replacement parts for all Pixel models for a couple of years, including batteries.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Szpadel 3y ago

i charge my phone to only 70% and my previous phone (pixel 2xl) after about 5 years of usage had still about 95% of capacity I'm using Accu battery app for alerting when my battery is charged and chargie dongle to cut power when I want to just plug phone for night

RealityVoid 3y ago
Huh, I had a pixel 4 that I just loved, but the battery got so so so bad I would need to charge it after about half of a day, so I just had to give up on it.
exhilaration 3y ago
https://chargie.org/ https://chargie.org/ Interesting product, thanks for mentioning it, you can limit how much you charge your phone battery the same way as a Tesla.
- jamesdwilson 3y ago
  don't all smartphones limit charging these days?
  - aembleton 3y ago
    My Pixel 7 doesn't. It'll slowly charge to 100% if you plugin overnight and have an alarm set, but most of the time I don't need more than 80% as I'm usually at home.
sensanaty 3y ago
At least on my Pixel 7, it doesn't actually charge it all the way if I plug it in at night. It will charge until 80%, then very slowly over the course of the night until my first alarm (of many, I'm a heavy sleeper lol) it'll get itself to 100%. Phones these days take good care of their own batteries, 100% doesn't actually mean 100%, same with 0% since both are extremely bad for Li-ion batteries.
fckgw 3y ago

alamortsubite 3y ago

I replaced the batteries in my mom's iPhone and dad's Motorola at about the same time last year. I agree it should be easier to do, but it's definitely not a losing proposition. They both turned out very well and cost < $20 each. I'd love a return to the old snap-fit plastic cases. Besides the ease of battery replacement, those phones seemed much more durable. Maybe because there was something that gave way on impact? I remember watching in horror as the plastic cover of an old LG shot under the display shelving at Home Depot at approximately the same speed the phone hit the concrete floor. I never used a case with one of those phones, nor did I ever crack a screen. It was tricky digging that cover out from under the shelving, however.

tshaddox 3y ago
When you refer to snap-fit plastic cases being more durable, I presume you're not talking about water and dust resistance.
- hollander 3y ago
  You can't have it all
  - elabajaba 3y ago
    Galaxy S5 had a removable battery and IP67 rating 9 years ago.
    - usrusr 3y ago
      Motorola Defy did the same 13 years ago. Loved the size and the white frame design, would buy a remake with modern chips and camera without hesitation.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Right. You can't have the thinnest/sleekest possible phone and an easily removable battery. Have to choose. Frustrating thing is, mainstream phone manufacturers don't give you a choice. There's no option to buy e.g. an a slightly more ruggedized iPhone that is 15% bulkier but gives you easy battery access. That's a thing I'd buy, even if it cost a bit more. The quest for "sleekness at all costs" made more sense 15-20 years ago, when full-spec smartphones and laptops were clunkier. Hopefully the tide is turning. Apple is offering beefier and thicker laptops (M1/M2 Macbook Pros) and likewise now gives buyers an option for a beefier "Explorer Edition" watch. No battery access sadly. But hopefully the pendulum might swing the other way a little now.

LunarAurora 3y ago

Well, if this trend of longer updates gets adopted, then the EU regulation on compulsory replaceable batteries will make even more sense.

jmull 3y ago

> usually a significant fraction of the cost of a new phone For my phone a battery replacement from the manufacturer is right at 10% the price of what's probably the equivalent new phone. (Not that I'm having battery issues yet for my ~2yr old phone.) To me that's well within the range of being worth it vs. a new phone. I don't have a Pixel, though, so maybe it's different.

afavour 3y ago

Apple charges, what, $90 for a battery replacement? I don't consider that a significant fraction of the cost of a new phone. Admittedly, once you're in year six of phone ownership it's going to look pretty bad compared to newer devices but I'm not sure what can really be done about that.

ChrisLTD 3y ago
What's annoying if that Apple will only replace a battery if they deem your battery bad enough for replacement. I had an iPad that only last 90 minutes on battery power and I couldn't pay them to replace it because the battery passed their diagnostic tests.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  Go to an Apple authorized repair shop. They will replace it if you simply pay them to, and they are cheaper than Apple while using the same authorized parts.

prmoustache 3y ago

Even if it was half the price of the brand new phone it would still be worth replacing the battery several times.

g232089 3y ago

According to https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement battery replacement for the iPhone 6s which came out 7 years ago is $ 69.

KeplerBoy 3y ago
which is about what an iPhone 6s is worth. Repairing such an old phone is not worth it. The sweet spot would be putting a new battery into a 3 year old phone to get another 3 years out of it.
- nsriv 3y ago
  The value judgment of "not worth it" is relative to perceived improvement in getting a new phone, but for many people the judgment is "can I get a new phone for $69?" Outside of carrier subsidies in the US, that's still not possible.
  - KeplerBoy 3y ago
    But you can get a better phone with great battery life for 250$. Motorola and many other manufacturers sell perfectly usable devices with 5000 mAh batteries for that price.
    - HansHamster 3y ago
      And you can get an even better phone by spending 900$! /s
    - llbeansandrice 3y ago
      Why would you switch platforms, form factors, OSs, etc. for +4x the cost of a battery in the ecosystem you already know?
      - KeplerBoy 3y ago
        because that iphone 6s is EOL no matter the battery. If you don't want to drop the money for a recent-ish iPhone you have to switch. Not that 1000$ are a bad deal for an iPhone that will easily last you 4+ years.

capitainenemo 3y ago

This was one of the reasons I selected the Samsung XCover6 pro. It still has a replaceable battery. It is also remarkably sturdy, which has paid off since mine has been dropped on concrete from hip height twice now with no additional phone protector and with no visible damage (apart from nicks in the plastic edge). It might be that the fact that the back explodes off on impact helps dissipate some of the energy? It is a relatively rugged phone for the slim profile though. Another nice thing about the replaceable battery is being able to keep a spare around for quick recharge.

hnburnsy 3y ago
Great tip!

h4l 3y ago

The EU are requiring phones to have user-replaceable batteries (no tools) from 2027. Hopefully batteries will stop being a problem soon. https://mashable.com/article/replaceable-batteries-smartphones-iphones-2027 https://mashable.com/article/replaceable-batteries-smartphon...

ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
There are exceptions for water proof devices and batteries having a capacity of 80% with 1000 cycles.
- onli 3y ago
  There were two recent types of EU regulations. One was broader, but had these exceptions, the other one hits phones and had no exceptions (that I noticed when it was last discussed). See https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...
theshrike79 3y ago
It doesn't say "no tools" it says: > A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.[0] So, for example, Apple's chunky multi step DIY battery swap kit is perfectly allowable if it's provided for free. "Commercially available tools" also includes stuff like Torx screws. So, again, the current system by most manufacturers is doable with very minor modifications. Open a few Torx screws, slowly pull off the command strip sticker under the battery, replace new battery, done. The HN/Reddit crowd's minds went right back to the 90s and 00s where you could (and had to) carry 3 separate batteries and could swap them on the go, which isn't the goal of this regulation at all. [0] https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT... - article 11
- 3y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

I have a Samsung J3 Prime from 2017. That's 6 years or so. Still entirely usable, with one or two small caveats. I got new batteries for the phone in 2018, and have not had to do so again.

lolbase 3y ago

Apple will replace batteries for iPhone 5s and up, for $69-89 in the US. No issues with fakes or low quality. People who want to do some work themselves can buy replacement kits from reputable part suppliers for $29-59. Your problem only occurs if somebody wants to do the work themselves _and_ they think they can source the parts without assistance from a reputable part supplier.

CountHackulus 3y ago

My OnePlus6T just hit 5 years old and the battery is plenty usable. I just slow charge it at night every night. Is it as good as it was when new? No. Is it still perfectly usable? Absolutely.

boruto 3y ago
My one plus 5t too. Absolutely working like a the day I bought it. Other than vanity and updates I don't see no reason to buy a new phone.

willseth 3y ago

I don't know what Pixel replacement batteries cost, but Apple typically charges a flat $89 to replace an out of warranty battery, less than 10% of the cost of a new phone, which is a totally reasonable proposition if you think you can get at least another year out of your phone. Unless Pixels are dramatically more expensive, then this doesn't check out at all.

KolmogorovComp 3y ago
I think the point of the OP is that after ~5 years (when you have to change your battery), your iPhone is not worth $890 dollars anymore, but more like $200-$300, out of which $89 is a significant portion.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  Except this analysis is flawed since you're not going to find a new equivalent replacement for 200-300$
  - argsnd 3y ago
    After 5 years you might...
    - _aavaa_ 3y ago
      Apple does not sell a 200$ phone. And 200$ android phones do not have the build quality of an 800$ one, even if it's 5 years old.
      - turtlebits 3y ago
        You can find carrier locked iPhone SE's for $150, you can get a free iPhone with a postpaid contract as well.
    - BossingAround 3y ago
      A 2nd hand one, that'll suffer the same battery issues at best

rkagerer 3y ago

Even if properly replacing the battery costs 2/3rds of a new phone, I'd be happy to pay that a couple times over its lifetime to squeeze extra years out of it and reduce how often I have to go through the gruelling process of successfully migrating everything over to a new phone (it's a real pain for those who prefer to avoid forking your data over to Google, which I gather is required by the built-in options like cloud backups and D2D transfer).

londons_explore 3y ago
> gruelling process of successfully migrating I hate this. Why do I have to relogin to every app on a new phone? Why are some apps missing after every migration? Why do some apps just randomly lose all config and settings and force you to set them up again? I want Google/Apple to force app devs to make backup and restore seamless. Like, if I am halfway through typing this comment on HN and then lightning fries my phone, when I restore to a new phone I want the exact same chrome tabs open with the same half-written comment. I don't want to have to battle to re-pair my printer or watch. I don't want stupid cookie warnings on every website again. I don't want to have to retrain every single fingerprint. I don't want to yet again opt out of data collection. I don't want to re-accept the same T&C's for photo backup I already agreed to last year, and the year before, and 10 years before that. Please... just make migration work the way it should have always worked.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Google/Apple management could make this happen. All they have to do is have a big bin of phones outside the weekly team all-hands meeting. Everyone must throw their phone in before the meeting. At the end, everyone takes a random phone, resets it, and logs in. While engineers refuse to do that, the process is still too cumbersome.
  - rkagerer 3y ago
    Best suggestion I've heard all week. Maybe it would finally realize my desire to cleanly keep a constantly-synced "hot standby" phone ready for deployment in case my primary one is lost. (Even better both would "just work" so I could grab either one on any day).

napierzaza 3y ago

[dead]

molticrystal 3y ago

I have a nexus 6p with a battery charging to 60% and the battery is on year 4 right now, runs android 11, and seems to have no end in sight for the battery. The phone itself is 2015 I got from a relative who bought a Pixel 3. So battery if handled properly will last a very long time. So while battery issues can't be dismissed, at least it often can be replaced or otherwise worked around. The bigger issue is storage errors and being permanently locked out. The Google Pixel 3 phone he bought died after 2 years due to the operating system not properly handling errors in the non-volatile storage, which is a very common error in Pixel 3/3XL/4 and maybe future ones as well. Google doesn't offer the firehose so owners are out of luck not able to reformat or recover the phones at all and completely locked out by the qualcomm bootloader with phones stuck in EDL mode. Google Pixel 3 EDL to see how prevalent the problem is, and google just doesn't care to help people fix the issue.

fluidcruft 3y ago
I woke up one day thinking I had that problem with my Pixel 3. Literally all the things described were going on and I was about to throw in the towel and rage post to reddit, but then I had a brief showerthought that maybe the battery was bad and the charging firmware was being retarded. Pixel 3 had this habit of autobooting when charging from dead when it thinks the battery has made it far enough to survive boot... it boots into this "battery charging" mode and then it will boot up when that's gotten far enough. But when its wrong (because the battery is dying) it never has enough power to make it past some initialization stage. Ultimately I "fixed" it by draining the battery completely (until the phone would not respond to anything) and then plugging it in to charge and watching it like a hawk to jump in and long-press power to force shutdown immediately when it tried to boot to keep it in powered-off charging (not the mini-boot it does where it shows you battery charge). It happened a second time and after rescuing it again, I replaced the battery and all was good.

fluidcruft 3y ago

I've replaced batteries very successfully on Nexus and Pixel phones. They're usually $30-$40 or so... I have gotten crappy batteries from Amazon but I've never had a problem with ifixit supplies. And if you're not into doing it yourself, you can just take them to Asurion or whatever. I'd be totally shocked if battery replacement costs more than $100... so nowhere near the $400-$700 original price of the phone. If you're comparing the battery to the resale value of the phone, maybe you have a point. But you're not buying a used phone with a fresh battery, either. Batteries generally cause enough issues that I plan on replacing them every three years.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

The other elephant in the room is that the EU is going to start mandating user-replaceable batteries in consumer electronics, and hopefully the US follows suit or big tech just decides to do it worldwide. I absolutely despise that Apple made non-replaceable batteries the norm, and most of us have begun to accept this as "the way things have always been". Every cell phone I had before the iPhone came out had an easily replaceable battery before we all became a slave to Ives' "Preciousssss" demands for minimalism. Edit: Folks seem to be misunderstanding why I brought up Apple. I in no way think they are now worse than any other phone manufacturer when it comes to irreplaceable batteries. But AFAIK the iPhone was the first phone to have a glued-in battery, and that has since become the norm. They have essentially helped lead the way in convincing consumers that replacing the battery shouldn't be an easy, user-accessible operation.

theshrike79 3y ago
How is Apple to blame for non-replaceable batteries? It's just the easiest way to construct a "modern" phone. Stick the battery in with a 3M Command Strip style sticker and it won't move, construct phone around it. Having to add toolless latches while keeping some kind of IP rating AND not looking like a rugged phone is a whole different thing.
- Raed667 3y ago
  for 1k a piece they better figure it out
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    Now tell me about the $2k Samsung Fold and how user repairable that is: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown/122600#teardownConclusion https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Fold+Teardown...
    - Raed667 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

azangru 3y ago

> there's no phone battery that's going to stay useful in anywhere close to that time frame I am writing this on a six-year-old Android phone. Still same battery. It lasts me through the day of light usage, including about three hours of podcasts/youtube playback during commute.

notatoad 3y ago

i don't think this needs to be the elephant in the room. batteries have a lifespan, and that's unavoidable, so it makes sense that battery degredation might be the thing that causes the end of your phone's life. software doesn't necessarily have a finite lifespan, so it shouldn't be the thing that causes the end of your hardware. providing seven years of updates is long enough that it probably means the software EOL won't have to be the reason to stop using your phone. that's how it should be.

ShakataGaNai 3y ago

Not true. There are plenty of people, like my mother, who are perfectly happy using a 5 or 6 year old phone. Does it still make calls, send texts and allow them to access some assortment of apps? Good enough. Is the battery shot? Totally, she's got it plugged into the wall, a battery or the car at least 50% of the day now. Doesn't care, it's good enough. My mother has zero desire to upgrade. I told her in another year her phone may no longer be supported by the latest iOS, in which case she was getting a forced upgrade (by me). Because everyone's phone has becomes the center of their lives and security of that device is of the utmost importance.

tgsovlerkhgsel 3y ago

The EU is mandating 80% capacity after 1000 cycles or a user-replaceable battery. Assuming you drain half the battery on an average day, that'd be over 5 years, and 80% is still more than I'd need. Assuming they actually enforce the law, of course.

wcarss 3y ago

I'm using a phone right now that I bought in 2016. The battery lasts me the day more or less. I bought a pixel just recently because Slack told me my phone is too old for them to support, and I need it for work. The camera is messed up on this phone, but otherwise, I would happily keep it another few years.

pbnjeh 3y ago

A friend still uses their iPhone 6 as their daily driver, with its original battery. The battery has lost some capacity, but not so much that they are constantly worried about recharging it. And yes, I've told them they need to replace it -- for security, if no other reason. But, they are a teacher (a very good and dedicated one, I'll add), and money's tight.

SirMaster 3y ago

Where are you buying batteries that are a significant portion of the price of a phone? For iPhones, authorized battery repairs around usually around $70 which is about 6-10% of the price of a new iPhone. Is $70 really so much to pay for a battery that should easily last you 3 years or so?

ocdtrekkie 3y ago

The real elephant in the room is that Google has claimed a commitment to this or that for X number of years so many times and changed their minds it isn't even funny. They just killed a Pixel support program last month before ever fulfilling the commitment they made for it... Nobody should buy this marketing line unless they have a contract guaranteeing some penalty for Google for failing to uphold this.

Helmut10001 3y ago

I've replaced batteries on my HTC HD2 5 times. It lasted 12 years, until the touch sensor died. I really miss this phone.

greesil 3y ago

Wait until 2027 https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...

kelnos 3y ago

Is that really the case? Maybe if you DIY the replacement? When my Pixel 4 battery started expanding (and popped the back off the phone) 2 years ago, I contacted a local repair guy who came to my house and replaced the battery for me for $80. That was 2 years ago and the battery has been fine since. It's certainly degraded a bit over those 2 years, but no more than I'd expect. I still get a full day of charge out of it, and then some. Yes, we absolutely need to be in a place where DIY battery replacements are reliable and cheap. But using a local repair shop seems to be a perfectly fine alternative for now.

nfriedly 3y ago

I had pretty good experience with replacing the battery in a pixel 2 with one from iFixit. On the other hand, the iPod touch battery that I got off eBay only lasted about 6 months before refused to charge.

r00fus 3y ago

Disagree that battery replacement is prohibitive. Current cost to replace battery on my iPhone 12 Pro Max is $90 ($100 for a newer one, $70 for older ones). I definitely replaced batteries on my family's iPhones when they ran the discounted battery replacement special. My phone is at 85% health and still manages to get through the day but paying $90 instead of buying another phone is a good deal for me for say, 2-3 years of additional use.