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Infrastructure from code is the least exciting development in the evolution of ops I've seen. Helping manage complexity -- great. Pulumi, Terraform, the CDK, a

by ctvo 3y ago

Infrastructure from code is the least exciting development in the evolution of ops I've seen. Helping manage complexity -- great. Pulumi, Terraform, the CDK, all of these infrastructure as code tools help manage complexity. Hiding complexity behind a DSL, via comments attached to methods intermingled with code or annotations -- not great. Some of these implementations are my business logic -> your DSL via annotations or comments -> <Some other IaC DSL> -> CloudFormation -> AWS. At some point the returns are diminished as you add more layers vs. the cost of operating what's generated and trying to debug issues.

postalrat 3y ago
The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity.
- BerislavLopac 3y ago
  That's pretty much the fundamental theorem of software engineering. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_software_engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_softwar...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- rewmie 3y ago
  > The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity. I don't think this is a valid take. The main responsibility of DevOps is automation. You cannot automate without writing code, which by definition means introducing complexity. You either introduce complexity by writing low-level scripts, or by adopting a tool/framework which allows you to write high-level code by hiding the low-level code in their entrails. I feel your comment implies that DevOps mindlessly adds complexity, when the truth of the matter is that it greatly simplifies everything at the expense of surfacing all the complexity that forced the world to treat all the cattle as fragile little pets.
  - fhcuvuvuc 3y ago
    I like pets. Not everyone is a rancher.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      I have no idea what point you were trying to make. The "cattle" analogy is about reproducibility. There is absolutely no reason to keep systems in an unmanageable state that you cannot reproduce.
- shantnutiwari 3y ago
  >The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity. Sorry, I thought you were talking about Npm there :) This isnt unique to Devops
mrits 3y ago
2030: Siri, setup infrastructure for me and remind me to delete next month
- throwjdn 3y ago
  [dead]
jetpackjoe 3y ago
Technically, the infra comes from Rust macros, not comments.
wernercd 3y ago
"Infrastructure from code is the least exciting development in the evolution of ops I've seen" The best things in programming are the things that are the least exciting. Stability and simplicity are huge selling points unless all you want is the new shiny.
- yuliyp 3y ago
  That's completely missing the point of the GP, which is that they're not excited because they don't see the value, not that Infrastructure from Code is stable and simple.

by ctvo 3y ago

postalrat 3y ago

The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity.

BerislavLopac 3y ago
That's pretty much the fundamental theorem of software engineering. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_software_engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_softwar...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
rewmie 3y ago
> The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity. I don't think this is a valid take. The main responsibility of DevOps is automation. You cannot automate without writing code, which by definition means introducing complexity. You either introduce complexity by writing low-level scripts, or by adopting a tool/framework which allows you to write high-level code by hiding the low-level code in their entrails. I feel your comment implies that DevOps mindlessly adds complexity, when the truth of the matter is that it greatly simplifies everything at the expense of surfacing all the complexity that forced the world to treat all the cattle as fragile little pets.
- fhcuvuvuc 3y ago
  I like pets. Not everyone is a rancher.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    I have no idea what point you were trying to make. The "cattle" analogy is about reproducibility. There is absolutely no reason to keep systems in an unmanageable state that you cannot reproduce.
shantnutiwari 3y ago
>The devops answer to complexity is always more complexity. Sorry, I thought you were talking about Npm there :) This isnt unique to Devops

mrits 3y ago

2030: Siri, setup infrastructure for me and remind me to delete next month

throwjdn 3y ago
[dead]

jetpackjoe 3y ago

Technically, the infra comes from Rust macros, not comments.

wernercd 3y ago

"Infrastructure from code is the least exciting development in the evolution of ops I've seen" The best things in programming are the things that are the least exciting. Stability and simplicity are huge selling points unless all you want is the new shiny.

yuliyp 3y ago
That's completely missing the point of the GP, which is that they're not excited because they don't see the value, not that Infrastructure from Code is stable and simple.