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In my opinion tech internet loves to dunk on Jira as it's seen as the manifestation of all the problems of Scrum and Agile. It's a "thing" people can point to s

In my opinion tech internet loves to dunk on Jira as it's seen as the manifestation of all the problems of Scrum and Agile. It's a "thing" people can point to so it becomes Jira's fault. People will nit pick over, sometimes justifiable, UI/UX issues with the product but the level of hatred you see can't be explained by that alone. In reality the problem is with Scrum and Agile.

gjvc 3y ago
Atlassian, through their flagrant and wanton behaviour of enabling and encouraging such activities, are the main drug dealers to and for Scrum and Agile junkies.
orangepanda 3y ago
My nit pick over Jira's UX - they recently changed how board is implemented, breaking ctrl+f
lmm 3y ago
Nope. Scrum and Agile are great. Jira is in many ways the antithesis of them: it favours processes and tools over individuals and interactions, it elevates comprehensive documentation over working software, and it encourages following a plan over responding to change.
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  Sorry I should have been more clear and said "manifestations of all the problems of Scrum and Agile have become". Jira has implemented all those features because that's what the industry (managers and people that like control) wanted Agile to become, so, to make money they did so. I don't blame them for that, they aren't the defenders of Agile. Again, the problem isn't Jira. If you strip away all the reporting, burn down charts etc what you are left with is an exceptionally powerful Kanban board with, in my opinion, a solid user experience.
  - XorNot 3y ago
    If you strip away all that stuff, you could be using another, better product and should be.
    - simonbarker87 3y ago
      I'm yet to find one to be honest. - Trello feels like a toy (it's not, we use it extensively for core business activities but I don't like it for software) - GitHub issues feels too focussed on devs - Todoist is clearly designed for solo use - Monday.com is for more generic project management - Notion is a mess when you have a lot of tickets - I don't want to use ClickUp After going though all of those I realised that Jira is pretty good for me.
      - lmm 3y ago
        I don't know exactly what your problem with Trello is - IMO it's the right tool for that space, or was until Atlassian bought it and started making it bloated and slow. Linear is also fine. It's possible to use Jira well (ish) but it requires constant effort. If you ever take your eye off the ball you'll have irreversible transitions and workflows that only certain people can do and you'll start using ticket numbers instead of issue descriptions and end up fighting the tool more than working.
      - bengale 3y ago
        Linear is that tool IMHO.
      - turtles3 3y ago
        Can you elaborate on why you don't like ClickUp? I've been long in search of a Jira replacement (haven't we all) and the only one that I'm seriously considering is ClickUp. Are there any show stoppers you've seen in practice?
        simonbarker87 3y ago
        To be fair to them I've not actually looked at the product, I just remember something about their marketing rubbed me the wrong way and put me off the brand. Give it a go though, you might like it.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Scrum and agile work great for small and independent teams, but in practice a lot of companies (that claim to have moved to those) still work in corporate structures, that is, teams that are not independent, work needs to be coordinated across teams (which led to Scaled Agile Framework (https://scaledagileframework.com/ https://scaledagileframework.com/ ... yeah), and there is a chain of reporting that requires tooling to do, especially with remote and / or distributed teams.
itomato 3y ago
Sorry. We have bugs that block UX changes that are old enough to drink.
dbingham 3y ago
Jira's UX is a nightmare. Prior to "next generation projects" everything was shared across all projects. Every single issue type, custom field, screen, etc was shared across every project and board in an entire instance. For even medium sized teams that would quickly become an untenable mess of toe stomping. On top of that, good luck making changes to anything. The structural configuration for board, screens, and fields is buried in a maze. Something as simple as changing the options on a single select custom field (say, to add a new team) consistently took me upwards of 30 mins of clicking fruitlessly through the UX every time I had to do it, because it was so unintuitively buried and hidden. Personally, that's why I despise Jira.
bilekas 3y ago
> In my opinion tech internet loves to dunk on Jira as it's seen as the manifestation of all the problems of Scrum and Agile Not from my perspective, I will happily 'dunk' on it because the UI/UX is so ridiculously slow and non responsive sometimes. It's a nightmare when we need to close a particularly large sprint out. Everything doesn't need to be 'drag & drop' . Trying to navigate the right fields to update is a numbers game, even if its a simple waterfall flow. They tried to do everything and that's great. But the UI suffers for it, its slow, incredible memory heavy to run on-premise, crashes in the browser frequently. It's not the best tool for the job.
angrygoat 3y ago
it feels like every time I go into Jira with the intention to do something, I'm shown a needy modal about some new feature that I really don't care about. and then I can't remember why I went in there in the first place. it's horrible to use.

gjvc 3y ago

Atlassian, through their flagrant and wanton behaviour of enabling and encouraging such activities, are the main drug dealers to and for Scrum and Agile junkies.

orangepanda 3y ago

My nit pick over Jira's UX - they recently changed how board is implemented, breaking ctrl+f

lmm 3y ago

Nope. Scrum and Agile are great. Jira is in many ways the antithesis of them: it favours processes and tools over individuals and interactions, it elevates comprehensive documentation over working software, and it encourages following a plan over responding to change.

simonbarker87 3y ago
Sorry I should have been more clear and said "manifestations of all the problems of Scrum and Agile have become". Jira has implemented all those features because that's what the industry (managers and people that like control) wanted Agile to become, so, to make money they did so. I don't blame them for that, they aren't the defenders of Agile. Again, the problem isn't Jira. If you strip away all the reporting, burn down charts etc what you are left with is an exceptionally powerful Kanban board with, in my opinion, a solid user experience.
- XorNot 3y ago
  If you strip away all that stuff, you could be using another, better product and should be.
  - simonbarker87 3y ago
    I'm yet to find one to be honest. - Trello feels like a toy (it's not, we use it extensively for core business activities but I don't like it for software) - GitHub issues feels too focussed on devs - Todoist is clearly designed for solo use - Monday.com is for more generic project management - Notion is a mess when you have a lot of tickets - I don't want to use ClickUp After going though all of those I realised that Jira is pretty good for me.
    - lmm 3y ago
      I don't know exactly what your problem with Trello is - IMO it's the right tool for that space, or was until Atlassian bought it and started making it bloated and slow. Linear is also fine. It's possible to use Jira well (ish) but it requires constant effort. If you ever take your eye off the ball you'll have irreversible transitions and workflows that only certain people can do and you'll start using ticket numbers instead of issue descriptions and end up fighting the tool more than working.
    - bengale 3y ago
      Linear is that tool IMHO.
    - turtles3 3y ago
      Can you elaborate on why you don't like ClickUp? I've been long in search of a Jira replacement (haven't we all) and the only one that I'm seriously considering is ClickUp. Are there any show stoppers you've seen in practice?
      - simonbarker87 3y ago
        To be fair to them I've not actually looked at the product, I just remember something about their marketing rubbed me the wrong way and put me off the brand. Give it a go though, you might like it.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Scrum and agile work great for small and independent teams, but in practice a lot of companies (that claim to have moved to those) still work in corporate structures, that is, teams that are not independent, work needs to be coordinated across teams (which led to Scaled Agile Framework (https://scaledagileframework.com/ https://scaledagileframework.com/ ... yeah), and there is a chain of reporting that requires tooling to do, especially with remote and / or distributed teams.

itomato 3y ago

Sorry. We have bugs that block UX changes that are old enough to drink.

dbingham 3y ago

Jira's UX is a nightmare. Prior to "next generation projects" everything was shared across all projects. Every single issue type, custom field, screen, etc was shared across every project and board in an entire instance. For even medium sized teams that would quickly become an untenable mess of toe stomping. On top of that, good luck making changes to anything. The structural configuration for board, screens, and fields is buried in a maze. Something as simple as changing the options on a single select custom field (say, to add a new team) consistently took me upwards of 30 mins of clicking fruitlessly through the UX every time I had to do it, because it was so unintuitively buried and hidden. Personally, that's why I despise Jira.

bilekas 3y ago

> In my opinion tech internet loves to dunk on Jira as it's seen as the manifestation of all the problems of Scrum and Agile Not from my perspective, I will happily 'dunk' on it because the UI/UX is so ridiculously slow and non responsive sometimes. It's a nightmare when we need to close a particularly large sprint out. Everything doesn't need to be 'drag & drop' . Trying to navigate the right fields to update is a numbers game, even if its a simple waterfall flow. They tried to do everything and that's great. But the UI suffers for it, its slow, incredible memory heavy to run on-premise, crashes in the browser frequently. It's not the best tool for the job.

angrygoat 3y ago

it feels like every time I go into Jira with the intention to do something, I'm shown a needy modal about some new feature that I really don't care about. and then I can't remember why I went in there in the first place. it's horrible to use.