5 ms·

Always goes up. I know it's cliche to say we cannot afford it anymore (we evidently can afford it, as we are paying for it). But eventually we really truly wil

by Gunax 3y ago

Always goes up. I know it's cliche to say we cannot afford it anymore (we evidently can afford it, as we are paying for it). But eventually we really truly will not be able to afford it. 5k to 22k in 23 years means it's going to be around 90k in 2045.

deprecative 3y ago
Have you tried not being poor? We all know the poors don't deserve healthcare. The answer unfortunately lies in Health Insurance companies existing and we don't really want to do anything else. Eventually they'll have to stop somewhere but with everything else going up what will give if not guillotines?
- nxm 3y ago
  No it’s not just health insurance to blame Doctors and nurses (who are very expensive) cost money as well as the drugs and the research costs behind them. I know Bernie and socialists love to blame health insurance, but doctors, nurses, hospital staff and drug companies would still cost money. See how much NHS costs are in Britain..yes they maybe lower per capita than in the US, but still HUGE
  - Drakim 3y ago
    Unless the wages of doctors, nurses, hospital staff and the employees of drug companies have gone up 200% the last 20 years I seriously doubt they are the root cause.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      Our doctors and nurses are paid quite a bit more than most (if not all?) countries. “The Royal College of Nursing estimated in 2021 that the average annual salary of an NHS nurse is £33,384. “ https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/a-quick-overview-of-nurses--salaries-in-the-uk/ https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/a-quick-overview-of-nurses--sa... “A U.S. nurse averages $82750 a year. California RNs top the list at $124000 annually.” https://www.incrediblehealth.com/blog/the-highest-paying-states-for-nurses/ https://www.incrediblehealth.com/blog/the-highest-paying-sta...
  - tcbawo 3y ago
    An interesting comparison might be veterinary care, which has also been increasing for quite some time. The typical insurance model for veterinary care is quite different than human healthcare insurance. However, one aspect in common is a consolidation of medical supply chain providers (decreased competition, rising costs for providers) and a proliferation of for-profit, private-equity backed, large healthcare providers who are able to negotiate prices and maximize profits by passing on price increases to those able to pay.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Private Equity has been getting in to veterinary care in a huge way, and many vet offices are cutting back on services and staffing significantly. It's very easy to see the change in motivation.
      - tcbawo 3y ago
        When you have for-profit healthcare, it’s not surprising that the system optimizes for short term profits over the well-being of healthcare workers or patients. People are willing to pay almost anything to stay alive and/or healthy. Healthcare workers will be paid (and otherwise treated) just well enough that they don’t leave. Sadly, the incentives are awful for people who get into healthcare for altruistic reasons.
        pauldenton 3y ago
        When you have state run healthcare there are a lot of wait lists. You can have an excess supply and ration by price or a modest supply and ration by waiting
        deprecative 3y ago
        When you have private for-profit healthcare you get a lot of wait lists. They come in the forms of "I can't afford that" and "I can still walk on that leg, I don't need to spend our retirement."
        3y ago
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    I know of many software engineers who make at least as much as doctors. It’s just not that lucrative anymore.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    > but doctors, nurses, hospital staff and drug companies would still cost money. Doctors, Nurses, and staff are employees. They cost money, yes. Drug companies cost money, yes. We, in the US, pay them a massive amount of money to socialize the risk and privatize the success. We should probably investigate that as well. The primary issue, however, is insurance companies. They're for profit. They need their numbers to grow. How do they do that? Cover less, raise prices for medication and procedures, and raise premiums.
  - Jochim 3y ago
    Much of the cost in the NHS is due to creeping privatisation and a mountain of PFI debt that could have been funded for a fraction fo the cost of what it bought. NHS consultants working at their hospital privately. Hiring their own companies. You're an NHS nurse, your pay has declined drastically in real terms and the job is increasingly stressful due to a staffing shortage. You spend part of each shift teaching a clueless agency nurse, who's costing the NHS 2-4x more than you, how things work. The government has over the last two decades, gradually shifting more work to private services, despite paying more for less each time they do so. The people responsible should be in jail.
- chmod775 3y ago
  Even for the top 10% some hospital bills are "honey, we need to sell the car" money. They'll wipe 1-2 years worth of disposable income. A 10 day hospital stay + airlift back home can be 120k.[1] [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-widower-stuck-with-us-100k-medical-bill-after-late-wife-hospitalized-on-vacation-1.6579045 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-widower-stuck-with-us-100...

by Gunax 3y ago

deprecative 3y ago

Have you tried not being poor? We all know the poors don't deserve healthcare. The answer unfortunately lies in Health Insurance companies existing and we don't really want to do anything else. Eventually they'll have to stop somewhere but with everything else going up what will give if not guillotines?

nxm 3y ago
No it’s not just health insurance to blame Doctors and nurses (who are very expensive) cost money as well as the drugs and the research costs behind them. I know Bernie and socialists love to blame health insurance, but doctors, nurses, hospital staff and drug companies would still cost money. See how much NHS costs are in Britain..yes they maybe lower per capita than in the US, but still HUGE
- Drakim 3y ago
  Unless the wages of doctors, nurses, hospital staff and the employees of drug companies have gone up 200% the last 20 years I seriously doubt they are the root cause.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    Our doctors and nurses are paid quite a bit more than most (if not all?) countries. “The Royal College of Nursing estimated in 2021 that the average annual salary of an NHS nurse is £33,384. “ https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/a-quick-overview-of-nurses--salaries-in-the-uk/ https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/a-quick-overview-of-nurses--sa... “A U.S. nurse averages $82750 a year. California RNs top the list at $124000 annually.” https://www.incrediblehealth.com/blog/the-highest-paying-states-for-nurses/ https://www.incrediblehealth.com/blog/the-highest-paying-sta...
- tcbawo 3y ago
  An interesting comparison might be veterinary care, which has also been increasing for quite some time. The typical insurance model for veterinary care is quite different than human healthcare insurance. However, one aspect in common is a consolidation of medical supply chain providers (decreased competition, rising costs for providers) and a proliferation of for-profit, private-equity backed, large healthcare providers who are able to negotiate prices and maximize profits by passing on price increases to those able to pay.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Private Equity has been getting in to veterinary care in a huge way, and many vet offices are cutting back on services and staffing significantly. It's very easy to see the change in motivation.
    - tcbawo 3y ago
      When you have for-profit healthcare, it’s not surprising that the system optimizes for short term profits over the well-being of healthcare workers or patients. People are willing to pay almost anything to stay alive and/or healthy. Healthcare workers will be paid (and otherwise treated) just well enough that they don’t leave. Sadly, the incentives are awful for people who get into healthcare for altruistic reasons.
      - pauldenton 3y ago
        When you have state run healthcare there are a lot of wait lists. You can have an excess supply and ration by price or a modest supply and ration by waiting
        deprecative 3y ago
        When you have private for-profit healthcare you get a lot of wait lists. They come in the forms of "I can't afford that" and "I can still walk on that leg, I don't need to spend our retirement."
        3y ago
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  I know of many software engineers who make at least as much as doctors. It’s just not that lucrative anymore.
- deprecative 3y ago
  > but doctors, nurses, hospital staff and drug companies would still cost money. Doctors, Nurses, and staff are employees. They cost money, yes. Drug companies cost money, yes. We, in the US, pay them a massive amount of money to socialize the risk and privatize the success. We should probably investigate that as well. The primary issue, however, is insurance companies. They're for profit. They need their numbers to grow. How do they do that? Cover less, raise prices for medication and procedures, and raise premiums.
- Jochim 3y ago
  Much of the cost in the NHS is due to creeping privatisation and a mountain of PFI debt that could have been funded for a fraction fo the cost of what it bought. NHS consultants working at their hospital privately. Hiring their own companies. You're an NHS nurse, your pay has declined drastically in real terms and the job is increasingly stressful due to a staffing shortage. You spend part of each shift teaching a clueless agency nurse, who's costing the NHS 2-4x more than you, how things work. The government has over the last two decades, gradually shifting more work to private services, despite paying more for less each time they do so. The people responsible should be in jail.
chmod775 3y ago
Even for the top 10% some hospital bills are "honey, we need to sell the car" money. They'll wipe 1-2 years worth of disposable income. A 10 day hospital stay + airlift back home can be 120k.[1] [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-widower-stuck-with-us-100k-medical-bill-after-late-wife-hospitalized-on-vacation-1.6579045 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-widower-stuck-with-us-100...