6 ms·

Why shouldn't we use AI for cover letters? We both know they're nonsense anyway, you don't want to read them and I don't want to write them.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
Personally, as an employer, I completely disagree. I’d prefer to be written to as a human. A short email (as in, a paragraph or two) that an applicant writes themselves explaining why they’re a good fit speaks volumes.
- baq 3y ago
  If you’re an employer (and any other employers reading this) you could say somewhere in the application process that you actually read the letters. I think most people assume nobody ever opens them.
  - danaris 3y ago
    If that becomes something that's expected, in order to get people to continue to send in cover letters, it will be abused. Everyone will say they read the letters—but no more companies will read them than do now.
- iamcreasy 3y ago
  Can you share more on how to write a good two paragraph cover letters? I try to write good cover letter but at the end of the day sentences feel generic and the job description never usually contains enough meat to bite onto. How can I convince an employer that I am actually interested to have a conversation with them about the job?
devoutsalsa 3y ago
Because it’s better to not submit a cover letter than to submit something filled with generic AI generated garbage that doesn’t represent the real you.
- monsieurbanana 3y ago
  Tell that to the companies that require them. The disconnect...
  - devoutsalsa 3y ago
    It’s not that hard to write a couple of sentences of original thought to show minimal interest.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ckolkey 3y ago
      It's not unheard of to be applying to 50+ companies in the hopes of hearing back from 5. It's not a couple sentences - if you wrote three sentences per letter, thats 150 sentences.
      - pc2slow4webpack 3y ago
        As someone graduating at the end of this year, this is quite the understatement in my experience. The constant, 0-feedback autorejections make this a demoralizing experience.
    - monsieurbanana 3y ago
      You might get disqualified by some automatic process that filters on length. Nobody will most likely read those couple of sentences anyway. And ironically, if they do, they might think you're lazy for writing only 2 and would rather go with the guy that has a longer cover not AI-generated. That is actually AI generated, because people thinking they can easily differentiate between them probably also think they are immune to publicity.
tempestn 3y ago
Know your audience. As the owner of a company with single digit employees, I put a fair amount of stock in a good cover letter. IE one that shows someone understands what they're applying to and why they might be a good fit. And that they're interested enough in this specific position to make a small effort beyond firing off a resume. I don't mind people submitting bad AI-written cover letters though. It's a clear signal that I can safely ignore the application.
- danaris 3y ago
  How the hell are job applicants supposed to "know our audience"? The whole point of the process is that neither of us knows anything about the other. And no; we can't rely on something like "it's a small company" (there are small companies where everyone's too busy to read cover letters, or doesn't care about them), or "they say they genuinely care about cover letters" (that's about as reliable as the list of qualifications, and we all know how idiotic those can often be). We would all be better off if we could relegate that "getting to know you" part of the hiring process to the interview. It's a relic of a time when applying for a dozen or so jobs would be likely to get you hired, so you could justify putting in a solid hour or so of effort crafting an individualized cover letter for each one.
  - tempestn 3y ago
    It shouldn't take an hour to write a decent cover letter, and there are many ways you can learn about the company you're applying to. Starting with the job posting, but LinkedIn and their "about us" page would be a couple more low effort ways. When someone is able to do these things and write a decent introductory letter it's a strong sign that they will also be able to deal well with challenges that come up in the course of work. Plus, as is its purpose, it gives you a chance to describe why you're a good choice for this specific role, and to address any apparent deficiencies in your skills or experience. That isn't to say that the lack of a cover letter is disqualifying (though a bad one might be), but a good one can definitely set you apart.
    - nasalgoat 3y ago
exodust 3y ago
Remind me why cover letters are nonsense? It's an opportunity to introduce yourself in plain English, drawing attention to specific career highlights, interests and relevant details for the role you're applying. Are we headed for: why meet anyone face to face when you could send an AI avatar loaded with "professional courtesy small talk"?
- ckolkey 3y ago
  Because employers (normally) don't read them.
- vlod 3y ago
  Pretty much 90%+ (for me and I have a shit tonne of experience) don't respond to any job posting. After a while it's quite hard not to get jaded about how the whole process is a compete waste of time. I believe I see a lot of that in the comments here. People are frustrated, because even when there's a great skills match, that they don't get a rejected letter, or if they do it's a auto generated one. They are trying to short cut the process using AI or not posting at all.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  I an "engineer"... All that is in single or two page document already. That experienced person could scan in a couple minutes if that. And I provided that exact document.
gorbachev 3y ago
There was a blog article posted on HN about this just last week. It's because generative AI writes generic "say-nothing" letters. They're impersonal, don't say anything substantive about the candidate's skill, and read like the uncanny valley version of written text. As the OP said, they're just a waste of time.
- Jensson 3y ago
  All of those things apply to regular cover letters. Cover letters, public apologies etc looked AI generated before AI generation was a thing.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    Maybe the cover letters you've encountered have nothing to say? try: "I was reading up on your company, and came across a podcast interview with your CEO/your CTO/the hiring manager. She was talking about the company culture/goals/story/challenges and said something I really identified with: X. This spoke to me because my own track-record/philosophy/goals include X. For example..." At least, I try to use it to show I've done some pre-work to ensure a good fit. Of course, if a person is applying to hundreds of positions, they likely haven't done that pre-work, so that person would have nothing to say.
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      If company expects this level of commitment and research from candidate. Why not offer exactly same level to them. Just set an appointment automatically and then you can tell how the company is greatest thing that have ever existed and ask candidate to tell why they love to join it so much...
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        I would indeed expect them to ensure a good fit in response to my doing so. And my doing research actually saves them time doing so, because I included similar information about me. For someone who didn't, why would the company offer it in response? If someone isn't that interested in that specific job, and would take just any job, they shouldn't do it, but someone who wants that specific job more, will That's one risk they take by adopting the scattershot, "impersonally apply to so many jobs simultaneously that you need AI to automate it" approach. Another one is getting a job somewhere that ends up being a bad fit I'll also note that cultural fit can be important for job satisfaction and/or effectiveness, even though you mock the concept as 'the candidate telling how the company is greatest thing that have ever existed and why they love to join it so much...'.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago

Personally, as an employer, I completely disagree. I’d prefer to be written to as a human. A short email (as in, a paragraph or two) that an applicant writes themselves explaining why they’re a good fit speaks volumes.

baq 3y ago
If you’re an employer (and any other employers reading this) you could say somewhere in the application process that you actually read the letters. I think most people assume nobody ever opens them.
- danaris 3y ago
  If that becomes something that's expected, in order to get people to continue to send in cover letters, it will be abused. Everyone will say they read the letters—but no more companies will read them than do now.
iamcreasy 3y ago
Can you share more on how to write a good two paragraph cover letters? I try to write good cover letter but at the end of the day sentences feel generic and the job description never usually contains enough meat to bite onto. How can I convince an employer that I am actually interested to have a conversation with them about the job?

devoutsalsa 3y ago

Because it’s better to not submit a cover letter than to submit something filled with generic AI generated garbage that doesn’t represent the real you.

monsieurbanana 3y ago
Tell that to the companies that require them. The disconnect...
- devoutsalsa 3y ago
  It’s not that hard to write a couple of sentences of original thought to show minimal interest.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ckolkey 3y ago
    It's not unheard of to be applying to 50+ companies in the hopes of hearing back from 5. It's not a couple sentences - if you wrote three sentences per letter, thats 150 sentences.
    - pc2slow4webpack 3y ago
      As someone graduating at the end of this year, this is quite the understatement in my experience. The constant, 0-feedback autorejections make this a demoralizing experience.
  - monsieurbanana 3y ago
    You might get disqualified by some automatic process that filters on length. Nobody will most likely read those couple of sentences anyway. And ironically, if they do, they might think you're lazy for writing only 2 and would rather go with the guy that has a longer cover not AI-generated. That is actually AI generated, because people thinking they can easily differentiate between them probably also think they are immune to publicity.

tempestn 3y ago

Know your audience. As the owner of a company with single digit employees, I put a fair amount of stock in a good cover letter. IE one that shows someone understands what they're applying to and why they might be a good fit. And that they're interested enough in this specific position to make a small effort beyond firing off a resume. I don't mind people submitting bad AI-written cover letters though. It's a clear signal that I can safely ignore the application.

danaris 3y ago
How the hell are job applicants supposed to "know our audience"? The whole point of the process is that neither of us knows anything about the other. And no; we can't rely on something like "it's a small company" (there are small companies where everyone's too busy to read cover letters, or doesn't care about them), or "they say they genuinely care about cover letters" (that's about as reliable as the list of qualifications, and we all know how idiotic those can often be). We would all be better off if we could relegate that "getting to know you" part of the hiring process to the interview. It's a relic of a time when applying for a dozen or so jobs would be likely to get you hired, so you could justify putting in a solid hour or so of effort crafting an individualized cover letter for each one.
- tempestn 3y ago
  It shouldn't take an hour to write a decent cover letter, and there are many ways you can learn about the company you're applying to. Starting with the job posting, but LinkedIn and their "about us" page would be a couple more low effort ways. When someone is able to do these things and write a decent introductory letter it's a strong sign that they will also be able to deal well with challenges that come up in the course of work. Plus, as is its purpose, it gives you a chance to describe why you're a good choice for this specific role, and to address any apparent deficiencies in your skills or experience. That isn't to say that the lack of a cover letter is disqualifying (though a bad one might be), but a good one can definitely set you apart.
  - nasalgoat 3y ago

exodust 3y ago

Remind me why cover letters are nonsense? It's an opportunity to introduce yourself in plain English, drawing attention to specific career highlights, interests and relevant details for the role you're applying. Are we headed for: why meet anyone face to face when you could send an AI avatar loaded with "professional courtesy small talk"?

ckolkey 3y ago
Because employers (normally) don't read them.
vlod 3y ago
Pretty much 90%+ (for me and I have a shit tonne of experience) don't respond to any job posting. After a while it's quite hard not to get jaded about how the whole process is a compete waste of time. I believe I see a lot of that in the comments here. People are frustrated, because even when there's a great skills match, that they don't get a rejected letter, or if they do it's a auto generated one. They are trying to short cut the process using AI or not posting at all.
Ekaros 3y ago
I an "engineer"... All that is in single or two page document already. That experienced person could scan in a couple minutes if that. And I provided that exact document.

gorbachev 3y ago

There was a blog article posted on HN about this just last week. It's because generative AI writes generic "say-nothing" letters. They're impersonal, don't say anything substantive about the candidate's skill, and read like the uncanny valley version of written text. As the OP said, they're just a waste of time.

Jensson 3y ago
All of those things apply to regular cover letters. Cover letters, public apologies etc looked AI generated before AI generation was a thing.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  Maybe the cover letters you've encountered have nothing to say? try: "I was reading up on your company, and came across a podcast interview with your CEO/your CTO/the hiring manager. She was talking about the company culture/goals/story/challenges and said something I really identified with: X. This spoke to me because my own track-record/philosophy/goals include X. For example..." At least, I try to use it to show I've done some pre-work to ensure a good fit. Of course, if a person is applying to hundreds of positions, they likely haven't done that pre-work, so that person would have nothing to say.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    If company expects this level of commitment and research from candidate. Why not offer exactly same level to them. Just set an appointment automatically and then you can tell how the company is greatest thing that have ever existed and ask candidate to tell why they love to join it so much...
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      I would indeed expect them to ensure a good fit in response to my doing so. And my doing research actually saves them time doing so, because I included similar information about me. For someone who didn't, why would the company offer it in response? If someone isn't that interested in that specific job, and would take just any job, they shouldn't do it, but someone who wants that specific job more, will That's one risk they take by adopting the scattershot, "impersonally apply to so many jobs simultaneously that you need AI to automate it" approach. Another one is getting a job somewhere that ends up being a bad fit I'll also note that cultural fit can be important for job satisfaction and/or effectiveness, even though you mock the concept as 'the candidate telling how the company is greatest thing that have ever existed and why they love to join it so much...'.