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I agree the distance makes it even stronger for the Japanese, but as an American I do feel like we have very little identifiably American culture. We're so youn

I agree the distance makes it even stronger for the Japanese, but as an American I do feel like we have very little identifiably American culture. We're so young, spread out, individualistic, and corporatized. It feels a significant amount of what was positive "American culture" in the age of Art Deco died. We left behind our Grand Central Stations for strip malls and fentanyl and huge parking lots around square beige buildings. And what clearly identifiable culture does exist aren't always pleasant: constant war (both foreign and domestic), gun culture, our views on labor, conservative christianity, anti-intellectualism, etc. So any nation with centuries of culture and tradition catches our eye as something we crave. Whether that's France or Mexico or Japan. That isn't to say we don't have subcultures nestled around, we certainly do. Nor to say other cultures don't have serious negatives / fragmentation we ignore from afar, they certainly do. But a lot of people I know all express the same longing for a sense of belonging. But a bias for Japanese culture does exist. It's better preserved, heavily juxtaposed to ours, has a close relationship with us, and they spend a lot of money to spread it.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Any culture's citizen will feel the same as you do about their own culture. Immigrants (like me) to the US adore US culture. Some positive examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture)
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  Oh, for sure! My point is just that America has a lot of factors that exacerbate the reasons those feelings happen. Americana is a good example, IMO. It's more a stereotype used in country songs idealizing a conservative, rural America; but it's not something actually practiced or related to by most Americans. Heck, it's often actively opposed!
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    Every culture has positive and negative aspects. Several positive aspects of US culture belong to non conservative areas: NYC, Hollywood, NASA, Silicon Valley, etc. Culture is not just ancient low tech practice. American culture is so globally ubiquitous we don’t even recognize it when we do it. E.g, despite animosity between China/US, Chinese citizens are fond of US culture (and vice-versa): https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole-jiang/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole... Japanese culture likewise has some negative aspects too: grope issue on trains, monoethnic culture where almost no other races can live as real equals, innovation and risk being actively discouraged, etc.
    - Tadpole9181 3y ago
      > Several positive aspects of US culture belong to non conservative areas: NYC, Hollywood... Regional cultures aren't national culture, I'd tuck this alongside subcultures in my original comment. > NASA, Silicon Valley Have internal business cultures, of which the vast majority of Americans have never participated in. > Culture is not just ancient low tech practice. I didn't say it was. I'm also not saying the US doesn't have ANY culture. I'm just meandering on the topic that cultural fetishism can be appealing to Americans because of how our own culture has grown to be and how immature it still is. Japan and France have American cultural fetishists too. > Japanese culture likewise has some negative aspects too I acknowledged this in my original comment as well.
      - kortilla 3y ago
        It’s not clear you have a point you’re trying to make anymore. > I'm just meandering on the topic that cultural fetishism can be appealing to Americans because of how our own culture has grown to be and how immature it still is. You’ve already been replied to that some from other cultures love American culture. Japan took Whisky, baseball, and jeans from the US and knocked them out of the park. Are you trying to say that Americans fetishize cultures more than others? Or are you saying the American culture has no appeal? It’s not clear and I don’t see you really supporting either view well.
saalweachter 3y ago
So there are some measures by which America will never have a culture like other countries. We're a young country, by many standards -- just 250 years, by most standards, four centuries if your really push it, only a century or two for most of our cities. We have always been in a state of change and development -- the Eerie Canal was less than fifty years old when the trans-continental railroad was completed. The Pony Express was put out of business by the telegraph within two years. The shopping mall era was maybe three decades. It's hard to find any techniques or traditions or enterprises which last more than a generation or two when everything changes so much. We have always existed in the global context. Take pizza -- it's hard to find a more American cuisine than pizza. Our cities have their own rivalries and pride over their takes on it. But it started off as Italian pizza after WWII, and we of course immediately re-exported our takes on pizza through the globe, so you can hardly claim it's distinctly American. We've always been a fragmented culture. The breaded pork tenderloin sandwich is on the menu at half of the restaurants in Indiana, but virtually unknown outside of it. Mardi gras is a huge thing in New Orleans, but not New York. There's barely anything besides fireworks on the fourth of July you can say is truly done throughout the US. We have plenty of culture of course, from jazz clubs to Shaker furniture to apple orchards and county fairs and quilting bees and all the history and artisans you could ask for; it will just never be the same as the culture that develops over hundreds of years in stagnant isolation.
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  I appreciate that you can more eloquently communicate what I meant to say. Thanks!
hoseja 3y ago
You've been successfully demotivated.
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  Hm? By whom, about what, for why? I love my country and appreciate my culture. In fact, America's melting pot is just lovely to me because I get to experience such a breadth of the world and people from within it. And don't get me started on breathy jazz in a repurposed southern home, eating pecan pie with the smell of magnolias and the chirping of the cicadas. Just because I can recognize negatives and discuss the topic from an anthropological perspective doesn't mean I'm "demotivated"? Though I do wish we brought back American Exceptionalism in the sense of building ornate mega structures and taking on huge infrastructure projects. Not that it's totally dead, but building wide and a resurrection of fiscal conservativism has severely crippled it.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
That's because the culture that existed was erased by the colonizers. The fact you consider America and its culture is only 250 years old is a great example of that. Native american culture goes back thousands of years, and it would be commendable to develop an interest in it as a lot of people do with the Japanese.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Most Americans are not related to native americans - why should they consider their culture as their own? It is absolutely fascinating, but a few generations back - say - Irish family would be hard-pressed to feel any belonging to it - the same way any conquerer would feel about the conquered.
- kortilla 3y ago
  “Native American culture” only goes back thousands of years if you blend all of them together. At that point there isn’t much of a meaningful difference including the culture that came from the early Spanish colonies. It’s not clear to me one tribe that wiped out a bunch of others to become powerful enough to be dominant for a hundred years is any more deserving of interest over Spain. From a rarity perspective sure, but not because they have any more right to the title of “American culture”.
kortilla 3y ago
Your post is just gripes about people you disagree with politically and doesn’t mention any culture at all. Blues, broadway, bbq, rap, burgers, road trips, entrepreneurship, etc. Just because something is identifiable to the US (your war example) does not make it culture. People spend very little time (most none) on any involvement with it so it’s not really an identifiable trait of the culture. Gun culture is similar in that, apart from a small minority of people obsessed with guns, even the people who do own them spend very little time talking about or thinking about them. It’s like saying we have a “fork” culture because lots of people use them.
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  Political ideology is very much culture. In fact, it's one of the stronger aspects of culture that shapes everything around it. For instance, blues and rap and rock and roll and road trips and entrepreneurship cultures all exist exclusively because of American politics. > Just because something is identifiable to the US (your war example) does not make it culture. National identity is a part of culture and how someone perceives their own culture and that of others. > People spend very little time (most none) on any involvement with it so it’s not really an identifiable trait of the culture. Pretty much every single person I know has had a family member in the military. I know at least 3 Vietnam vets, and all of them still hold trauma from it. The military is one of the most brought up topics in American politics because of how much money we spend and shapes how the world thinks of us for 100 years. 9/11 redefined privacy, security, geopolitics, and travel. We have recruiting booths in every high school and university. To say war is not a fundamental part of American culture seems absurd. > Gun culture is similar in that, apart from a small minority of people obsessed with guns, even the people who do own them spend very little time talking about or thinking about them. I won't disagree with you on that, that's fair. And it's heavily regional too. But when we're talking about how Americans have a loose national identity, I think it's fair that gun culture is very much perceived as part of it. And given the prevalence of mass shootings, it's not a good thing to feel associated with, which causes Americans to distance themselves from the national identity. Contrast this with the (to be fair, stereotyped and sanitized) identities of Japan being clean or France being cultured or Germany being industrious. But this is just how I've come to understand the situation from talking to people I've met in my life. Culture is extremely complicated and I'm not an anthropologist by any means. I'd love to hear what you think!
BirAdam 3y ago
The USA isn’t a single nation which is where I think the perception of a lack of “American” culture comes from. We do have Cajun culture, New England culture, Southern culture, Texan culture, and MidWestern/Great Lakes culture, and so on. Additionally, the USA is an empire ruled by a city state so there are bits that are shared among these different cultures, and there are bits that are exported as a soft to other countries. For example, Hollywood is distinctly a product of the USA and is sent far and wide as a cultural export. Broadway is also a cultural export of the USA.
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  All great points! Thanks for sharing.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

Any culture's citizen will feel the same as you do about their own culture. Immigrants (like me) to the US adore US culture. Some positive examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(culture)

Tadpole9181 3y ago
Oh, for sure! My point is just that America has a lot of factors that exacerbate the reasons those feelings happen. Americana is a good example, IMO. It's more a stereotype used in country songs idealizing a conservative, rural America; but it's not something actually practiced or related to by most Americans. Heck, it's often actively opposed!
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  Every culture has positive and negative aspects. Several positive aspects of US culture belong to non conservative areas: NYC, Hollywood, NASA, Silicon Valley, etc. Culture is not just ancient low tech practice. American culture is so globally ubiquitous we don’t even recognize it when we do it. E.g, despite animosity between China/US, Chinese citizens are fond of US culture (and vice-versa): https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole-jiang/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/04/world/asia/china-jackson-hole... Japanese culture likewise has some negative aspects too: grope issue on trains, monoethnic culture where almost no other races can live as real equals, innovation and risk being actively discouraged, etc.
  - Tadpole9181 3y ago
    > Several positive aspects of US culture belong to non conservative areas: NYC, Hollywood... Regional cultures aren't national culture, I'd tuck this alongside subcultures in my original comment. > NASA, Silicon Valley Have internal business cultures, of which the vast majority of Americans have never participated in. > Culture is not just ancient low tech practice. I didn't say it was. I'm also not saying the US doesn't have ANY culture. I'm just meandering on the topic that cultural fetishism can be appealing to Americans because of how our own culture has grown to be and how immature it still is. Japan and France have American cultural fetishists too. > Japanese culture likewise has some negative aspects too I acknowledged this in my original comment as well.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      It’s not clear you have a point you’re trying to make anymore. > I'm just meandering on the topic that cultural fetishism can be appealing to Americans because of how our own culture has grown to be and how immature it still is. You’ve already been replied to that some from other cultures love American culture. Japan took Whisky, baseball, and jeans from the US and knocked them out of the park. Are you trying to say that Americans fetishize cultures more than others? Or are you saying the American culture has no appeal? It’s not clear and I don’t see you really supporting either view well.

saalweachter 3y ago

So there are some measures by which America will never have a culture like other countries. We're a young country, by many standards -- just 250 years, by most standards, four centuries if your really push it, only a century or two for most of our cities. We have always been in a state of change and development -- the Eerie Canal was less than fifty years old when the trans-continental railroad was completed. The Pony Express was put out of business by the telegraph within two years. The shopping mall era was maybe three decades. It's hard to find any techniques or traditions or enterprises which last more than a generation or two when everything changes so much. We have always existed in the global context. Take pizza -- it's hard to find a more American cuisine than pizza. Our cities have their own rivalries and pride over their takes on it. But it started off as Italian pizza after WWII, and we of course immediately re-exported our takes on pizza through the globe, so you can hardly claim it's distinctly American. We've always been a fragmented culture. The breaded pork tenderloin sandwich is on the menu at half of the restaurants in Indiana, but virtually unknown outside of it. Mardi gras is a huge thing in New Orleans, but not New York. There's barely anything besides fireworks on the fourth of July you can say is truly done throughout the US. We have plenty of culture of course, from jazz clubs to Shaker furniture to apple orchards and county fairs and quilting bees and all the history and artisans you could ask for; it will just never be the same as the culture that develops over hundreds of years in stagnant isolation.

Tadpole9181 3y ago
I appreciate that you can more eloquently communicate what I meant to say. Thanks!

hoseja 3y ago

You've been successfully demotivated.

Tadpole9181 3y ago
Hm? By whom, about what, for why? I love my country and appreciate my culture. In fact, America's melting pot is just lovely to me because I get to experience such a breadth of the world and people from within it. And don't get me started on breathy jazz in a repurposed southern home, eating pecan pie with the smell of magnolias and the chirping of the cicadas. Just because I can recognize negatives and discuss the topic from an anthropological perspective doesn't mean I'm "demotivated"? Though I do wish we brought back American Exceptionalism in the sense of building ornate mega structures and taking on huge infrastructure projects. Not that it's totally dead, but building wide and a resurrection of fiscal conservativism has severely crippled it.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

That's because the culture that existed was erased by the colonizers. The fact you consider America and its culture is only 250 years old is a great example of that. Native american culture goes back thousands of years, and it would be commendable to develop an interest in it as a lot of people do with the Japanese.

kaba0 3y ago
Most Americans are not related to native americans - why should they consider their culture as their own? It is absolutely fascinating, but a few generations back - say - Irish family would be hard-pressed to feel any belonging to it - the same way any conquerer would feel about the conquered.
kortilla 3y ago
“Native American culture” only goes back thousands of years if you blend all of them together. At that point there isn’t much of a meaningful difference including the culture that came from the early Spanish colonies. It’s not clear to me one tribe that wiped out a bunch of others to become powerful enough to be dominant for a hundred years is any more deserving of interest over Spain. From a rarity perspective sure, but not because they have any more right to the title of “American culture”.

kortilla 3y ago

Your post is just gripes about people you disagree with politically and doesn’t mention any culture at all. Blues, broadway, bbq, rap, burgers, road trips, entrepreneurship, etc. Just because something is identifiable to the US (your war example) does not make it culture. People spend very little time (most none) on any involvement with it so it’s not really an identifiable trait of the culture. Gun culture is similar in that, apart from a small minority of people obsessed with guns, even the people who do own them spend very little time talking about or thinking about them. It’s like saying we have a “fork” culture because lots of people use them.

Tadpole9181 3y ago
Political ideology is very much culture. In fact, it's one of the stronger aspects of culture that shapes everything around it. For instance, blues and rap and rock and roll and road trips and entrepreneurship cultures all exist exclusively because of American politics. > Just because something is identifiable to the US (your war example) does not make it culture. National identity is a part of culture and how someone perceives their own culture and that of others. > People spend very little time (most none) on any involvement with it so it’s not really an identifiable trait of the culture. Pretty much every single person I know has had a family member in the military. I know at least 3 Vietnam vets, and all of them still hold trauma from it. The military is one of the most brought up topics in American politics because of how much money we spend and shapes how the world thinks of us for 100 years. 9/11 redefined privacy, security, geopolitics, and travel. We have recruiting booths in every high school and university. To say war is not a fundamental part of American culture seems absurd. > Gun culture is similar in that, apart from a small minority of people obsessed with guns, even the people who do own them spend very little time talking about or thinking about them. I won't disagree with you on that, that's fair. And it's heavily regional too. But when we're talking about how Americans have a loose national identity, I think it's fair that gun culture is very much perceived as part of it. And given the prevalence of mass shootings, it's not a good thing to feel associated with, which causes Americans to distance themselves from the national identity. Contrast this with the (to be fair, stereotyped and sanitized) identities of Japan being clean or France being cultured or Germany being industrious. But this is just how I've come to understand the situation from talking to people I've met in my life. Culture is extremely complicated and I'm not an anthropologist by any means. I'd love to hear what you think!

BirAdam 3y ago

The USA isn’t a single nation which is where I think the perception of a lack of “American” culture comes from. We do have Cajun culture, New England culture, Southern culture, Texan culture, and MidWestern/Great Lakes culture, and so on. Additionally, the USA is an empire ruled by a city state so there are bits that are shared among these different cultures, and there are bits that are exported as a soft to other countries. For example, Hollywood is distinctly a product of the USA and is sent far and wide as a cultural export. Broadway is also a cultural export of the USA.

Tadpole9181 3y ago
All great points! Thanks for sharing.