3 ms·

I cannot be convinced that's a common thing. Here's my pro-hallucinogen argument: if you have persistent, treatment resistant anxiety, there is nothing even cl

I cannot be convinced that's a common thing. Here's my pro-hallucinogen argument: if you have persistent, treatment resistant anxiety, there is nothing even close to a heroic dose of your favorite hallucinogen to kill your ego and let you see through the bullshit in your life. You'll have a pretty bad time during the trip, but the clarity it provides is life changing.

ogogmad 3y ago
Anxiety disorders are highly correlated with serious HPPD. I'm afraid to say that I'm not sure this is responsible advice, given the possible risk. It would nice to get more data about HPPD to understand its prevalence and risk factors. [edit] I would agree that hallucinogens might be a good mind medicine, but they should be likened to medications or surgeries when it comes to risk.
- hluska 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Yikes - your account has unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines a ton lately. This is just a smattering: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37384354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37384354 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37366060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37366060 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374465 (June 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36348101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36348101 (June 2023) We have to ban accounts that post this aggressively and/or abrasively, and we have had to ask you about this more than once before. That's not ok. I don't want to ban you, but we need this to stop. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the intended spirit of the site to heart, we'd be grateful. That means curious, respectful conversation without snark, swipes, or putdowns, for starters.
GuB-42 3y ago
> You'll have a pretty bad time during the trip, but the clarity it provides is life changing. Or it may traumatize you for life. And that "clarity" may just be an illusion, which doesn't mean it can't have a positive effect, but you can't really count on it. That's the problem with psychedelics, they are unpredictable. The can definitely do miracles, but they can also do great harm, though usually not by the way of toxicity or addiction. There is a reason we don't use LSD for psychiatric treatment. This is no conspiracy theory, they tried, and failed. I mean, LSD is a product of big pharma, and as you may have guessed, Sandoz really wanted to make a real treatment out of their patented drug, for money. Maybe with modern science and better experience with psychedelics, we could success where the others have failed, but we are not there yet. That's why I really don't recommend that type of self-medication. Now, if you want to enjoy a good trip, go for it, there are some risks, but rather low if you do it properly, and many good things in life carry risks. But suggesting a heroic dose to someone anxious with the implication that it may lead to a bad trip is going against every advice regarding psychedelics, and essentially replicating the very experiments that failed and caused LSD to end up as a schedule 1 drug rather than a recognized treatment. It may work, but that's a huge gamble.
- simbolit 3y ago
  There has been a research gap on LSD (and many other 'drugs') of nearly 50 years. Only in the last decade or so are we actively researching 'uses' again. I think this is most interesting and potentially promising: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376/ Disclaimer: While I have big problems with current legal regimes and discourses on 'drugs' (virtually always excluding ethanol and nicotine), I do NOT promote or advocate the use of psychedelics. Most of them (see above) are massively under-researched and many available substances are not at all pure, so there is always a non-trivial danger associated.
- samplatt 3y ago
  >There is a reason we don't use LSD for psychiatric treatment. This is no conspiracy theory, they tried, and failed. This is wrong. There's a lot of misinformation around the history of psychedelics. The early "clinical trials" were extremely bad science. The short version is the scientist leading the team who first synthesized it was also the person who first attempted to popularize its use, and is pretty much a poster-child for "sex- and drug-crazed hippy". The US had already adopted a heavy anti-drug rhetoric and later LSD was rolled into the war on drugs effort. There was bad-faith-actors on both sides of the fence for a long time. >Or it may traumatize you for life. [...] But suggesting a heroic dose to someone anxious with the implication that it may lead to a bad trip is going against every advice regarding psychedelics Completely agreed. The potential for long-term trauma cannot be understated. They shouldn't be played with unsupervised, and the supervisor should be well versed in what happens with a good AND a bad reaction. (I don't like the term 'bad trip'.)
cypherpunks01 3y ago
Nobody has claimed that HPPD is a common thing. It is a rare but debilitating condition.
boppo1 3y ago
I did some psychedelics, and my friends did even more. They were always telling me about their truly groundbreaking personal epiphanies, but they never really changed their lives.
huytersd 3y ago
Clarity or “the truth” is not always some elevating panacea. Sometimes an essential delusion is what keeps a lot of us moving forward and happy.

ogogmad 3y ago

Anxiety disorders are highly correlated with serious HPPD. I'm afraid to say that I'm not sure this is responsible advice, given the possible risk. It would nice to get more data about HPPD to understand its prevalence and risk factors. [edit] I would agree that hallucinogens might be a good mind medicine, but they should be likened to medications or surgeries when it comes to risk.

hluska 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Yikes - your account has unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines a ton lately. This is just a smattering: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37759632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37384354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37384354 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37366060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37366060 (Sept 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374465 (June 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36348101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36348101 (June 2023) We have to ban accounts that post this aggressively and/or abrasively, and we have had to ask you about this more than once before. That's not ok. I don't want to ban you, but we need this to stop. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the intended spirit of the site to heart, we'd be grateful. That means curious, respectful conversation without snark, swipes, or putdowns, for starters.

GuB-42 3y ago

> You'll have a pretty bad time during the trip, but the clarity it provides is life changing. Or it may traumatize you for life. And that "clarity" may just be an illusion, which doesn't mean it can't have a positive effect, but you can't really count on it. That's the problem with psychedelics, they are unpredictable. The can definitely do miracles, but they can also do great harm, though usually not by the way of toxicity or addiction. There is a reason we don't use LSD for psychiatric treatment. This is no conspiracy theory, they tried, and failed. I mean, LSD is a product of big pharma, and as you may have guessed, Sandoz really wanted to make a real treatment out of their patented drug, for money. Maybe with modern science and better experience with psychedelics, we could success where the others have failed, but we are not there yet. That's why I really don't recommend that type of self-medication. Now, if you want to enjoy a good trip, go for it, there are some risks, but rather low if you do it properly, and many good things in life carry risks. But suggesting a heroic dose to someone anxious with the implication that it may lead to a bad trip is going against every advice regarding psychedelics, and essentially replicating the very experiments that failed and caused LSD to end up as a schedule 1 drug rather than a recognized treatment. It may work, but that's a huge gamble.

simbolit 3y ago
There has been a research gap on LSD (and many other 'drugs') of nearly 50 years. Only in the last decade or so are we actively researching 'uses' again. I think this is most interesting and potentially promising: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376/ Disclaimer: While I have big problems with current legal regimes and discourses on 'drugs' (virtually always excluding ethanol and nicotine), I do NOT promote or advocate the use of psychedelics. Most of them (see above) are massively under-researched and many available substances are not at all pure, so there is always a non-trivial danger associated.
samplatt 3y ago
>There is a reason we don't use LSD for psychiatric treatment. This is no conspiracy theory, they tried, and failed. This is wrong. There's a lot of misinformation around the history of psychedelics. The early "clinical trials" were extremely bad science. The short version is the scientist leading the team who first synthesized it was also the person who first attempted to popularize its use, and is pretty much a poster-child for "sex- and drug-crazed hippy". The US had already adopted a heavy anti-drug rhetoric and later LSD was rolled into the war on drugs effort. There was bad-faith-actors on both sides of the fence for a long time. >Or it may traumatize you for life. [...] But suggesting a heroic dose to someone anxious with the implication that it may lead to a bad trip is going against every advice regarding psychedelics Completely agreed. The potential for long-term trauma cannot be understated. They shouldn't be played with unsupervised, and the supervisor should be well versed in what happens with a good AND a bad reaction. (I don't like the term 'bad trip'.)

cypherpunks01 3y ago

Nobody has claimed that HPPD is a common thing. It is a rare but debilitating condition.

boppo1 3y ago

I did some psychedelics, and my friends did even more. They were always telling me about their truly groundbreaking personal epiphanies, but they never really changed their lives.

huytersd 3y ago

Clarity or “the truth” is not always some elevating panacea. Sometimes an essential delusion is what keeps a lot of us moving forward and happy.