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Press Reviews of the AMD Ryzen 7040 Framework Laptop 13
- mithrilskeleton 3y agointeresting to see that the i7-1370P model had the same battery life as the Ryzen 7 7840U - I would have expected a larger delta
- arglebargle123 3y agoNow that Intel's on the chiplet train too I think we're going to see a significant reduction of AMD's lead there. IME Intel is a bit better at the whole power optimization thing when their chip designs aren't gobbling watts to boost performance.
- wmf 3y agoChiplets are actually bad for energy efficiency.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoExactly that's why AMDs Laptop chips are monolithic and not chiclet.
- brucethemoose2 3y agoAlso note that the AMD part isn't a chiplet part. That is quite deliberate.
- xarope 3y agoThat's kind of strange too, the notebookcheck article shows the Ryzen version having a much larger runtime in their benchmark compared to the i7-1370P version. Search for "Battery life", you'll see WIFI runtime at 726 vs 527 (I assume minutes) for Ryzen vs Intel respectively. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-7840U-review-So-much-better-than-the-Intel-version.756613.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-... I'm waiting in line for my GPD Win Max 2 w/7840 to turn up, to replace my long-in-tooth T480s...
- xarope 3y agoAh, it was already mentioned in the previous thread too, that Ars review team had the ports configured incorrectly which resulted in higher power draw. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752950#37756186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752950#37756186
- tedunangst 3y agoThe alleged proof that they configured the ports wrong is a picture from their Intel framework review. "We're using the same pictures as a previous review because it's the exact same laptop." You can see the same picture here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-framework-laptops-13th-gen-intel-upgrade-helps-fix-its-battery-problem/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-framework-lap... The Ars review also even mentions this problem: "Framework also says the rear ports enter a "high-power mode" when USB-A modules are connected to them, which can reduce battery life." Either way, glad we have a new product we can blame the user for holding wrong.
- mardifoufs 3y agoThe notebook check power figures make no sense when you consider that their measured runtime was longer than what would be possible if the laptop was at idle the whole time. Their average idle power draw was at 6.5 watts, the battery is 65wh and the overall runtime is... 700+ minutes? What am I missing ? Even if we assume that the test was completely at idle, Intel seems to draw less power than AMD when idling so I'm still puzzled by the run times.
- washadjeffmad 3y agoEarlier thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752950
- kcb 3y agohttps://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-7840U-review-So-much-better-than-the-Intel-version.756613.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Ryzen-7-...
- binkHN 3y agoBased on this, the fan is rather loud. I guess that's how they're able to maintain the sustained performance numbers.
- treffer 3y agoWell, they usually ship unlocked CPUs, where other vendors often power-throttle the CPU. I am not a "fan" of the fan noise, so I checked and the EC firmware was open source. It was possible to raise the fan tipping point to run the laptop hotter and more silent. People have also tried to set the power clamping later. That works and is equivalent to limit it in the BIOS. Key point is: this does not mean you have to run it that way. Add a power profile, l configure the fan curve, enjoy.
- mardifoufs 3y agoThose power figures make no sense, I'm not sure I get it. How could it run for more minutes than the battery size divided by average power draw would imply?
- potatoalienof13 3y agoThat is be power draw at the outlet [0]. There is probably loss that occurs when drawing from an outlet that does not occur when drawing from the battery. [0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-Test-Criteria.15394.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Our-Test-Criteria.15394.0.html
- xxs 3y agoThere is loss to convert AC/DC, likely low 90s efficiency. Having an in-line DC power meter should be a very simple task, measuring the draw power from the outlet is rather pointless.
- nextos 3y agoFrom what I have seen in other reviews, Framework laptops seem great but the fan is a tad too noisy. Any real experience with that? AMD ThinkPads are surprisingly quiet.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jackmott42 3y agoOn the bright side as it gets old, it will be easy to clean out the fan or re-do the thermal paste on the Framework! We have the first gen framework and while we haven't noticed any fan noise issue, its used to write a novel mostly, so we wouldn't be heating it up anyway.
- LatticeAnimal 3y ago> Any real experience with that? Normally fine, but around my majority-mac coworkers, it stands out quite a bit. Silent 90% of the time though.
- jmkni 3y agoThe Macbook Air has ruined other laptops for me, in terms of fan noise/thermals/battery life!
- wildrhythms 3y agoMy base model Macbook Air M1 have a Twitch stream, a few dozen browser tabs, VS Code, and docker container running simultaneously with no fan (and no noise obviously), but I try the same tasks on my Framework and it's blasting the fan and the performance goes to shit as it starts thermal throttling. :/
- darthrupert 3y agoYeah. I think I'll also steer clear from non-ARM processors from now on. It's starting to feel like driving a non-EV car. I wonder if we'll ever see a good PC with an ARM chipset?
- chem83 3y agoThese 7840Us[0] on the Framework 13 are performing surprisingly well compared to other laptops carrying the same CPU on Geekbench. Almost as good as the 7940HS[1]. MacBook Pro[2] and Air[3] M2, for reference. [0] https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=7840u https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=7840u [1] https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=7940hs https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=7940hs [2] https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=macbook+pro+m2 https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=macboo... [3] https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=macbook+air+m2 https://browser.geekbench.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=macboo...
- xxs 3y agoI'd not put any trust in geekbench. If you read the whitepaper[0], you'd notice quite some weird scenarios. Take the compression (it uses zstd, which a major prop), however it compresses some 10k small files of a total 75MB. Compressing small files individually is just pointless, ztsd is not an archiver (I suppose the compressor/decompressors are re-created for each file, too). The total size is just tiny as well. Then it uses a virtual file system with AES in memory, no idea how the latter is implemented but I suppose it lays entirely in the userland. Due to small sizes, the workload would be very L2/L3 sensitive - however it doesn't represent any common way that compression is used in practice, esp. zstd. [0]: https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench6-benchmark-internals.pdf https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench6-benchmark-internals...
- nine_k 3y agoI don't see why a CPU test should be only about number crunching, and not about RAM and cache access efficiency, provided that the test is not incurring gratuitous cache trashing. Also, working with a ton of small files is a typical real-world task.
- xxs 3y ago>Also, working with a ton of small files is a typical real-world task. Yes, but not compressing them individually, and while staying in the userland (and having SHA1 on each, just for kicks). The real world scenarios tend to be make a big archive (e.g. tar) and compress that thing. >and not about RAM and cache access efficiency It's about the size of the cache, workloads that fit L2 vs such that don't, exhibit an amazing performance boost. Pretty much, the performance drops off a cliff when it doesn't fit the L2. Overall microbenchmarks are extremely/notoriously difficult to get right, and more often than not, they are gamed. However the compression/decompression of geekbench is just bad.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoStill no support for ECC RAM. When is someone going to take a leadership position?
- ianlevesque 3y agoAnd give up that sweet, sweet enterprise market segmentation? I wish they would.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoFramework has no enterprise products other than BYOD and AMD already did the work.
- ianlevesque 3y agoAMD was who I meant by they. Sibling comment clarifies that it’s only on Pro.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoAre we not deserving of pro-level parts? All just amateurs at HN? They seem to be a bit confused as to who their customer is.
- pella 3y agoFramework Team: "ECC parity functionality is not supported on the non-Pro series APUs (we are not offering Pro series). ( via https://community.frame.work/t/ecc-support/29096/142 https://community.frame.work/t/ecc-support/29096/142 )
- mixmastamyk 3y agoRead that already. It doesn’t really answer why we are we not deserving of pro parts?
- chpatrick 3y ago
- pella 3y agoThe testing for Linux will require a few more weeks of delay due to a BIOS issue. "AMD Ryzen Powered Framework Laptop Linux Testing Held Up By BIOS Issue" https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Framework-Linux-Hold "Today the review embargo lifts on the first AMD-powered Framework laptop. There's one of the AMD Framework laptops in the lab for Linux testing and benchmarking but unfortunately no review for launch day due to being held up by a BIOS regression and thus unable to properly utilize accelerated graphics until a new BIOS revision is made available in the coming days." "Long story short, in a week or two should be the Linux review and benchmarks for the new AMD Framework Laptop."
- guywhocodes 3y ago> EU warehouse for Framework Marketplace items What countries in Europe do they even deliver to? I'm in EU, had to buy mine through a friend in Canada and pay double VAT because there is no logistics.
- pella 3y agohttps://knowledgebase.frame.work/what-countries-and-regions-do-you-ship-to-r1899ikiO https://knowledgebase.frame.work/what-countries-and-regions-... "September 14 2023 3:22pm The Framework Laptop is currently available in the following countries and regions: - United States (not including outlying territories) - Canada - United Kingdom - Germany - France - Ireland - Netherlands - Austria - Australia - Italy - Spain - Belgium - Taiwan "
- stratom 3y agoHaving a local EU Warehouse now, maybe they'll add further EU countries soon?
- mdhen 3y agoYeah you could have just used a parcel forwarder in germany.
- LelouBil 3y agoStill waiting for my Batch 2 Framework 16 !
- TruthWillHurt 3y agoA GPU, a GPU! my Razer for a Framework with a GPU! edit: Actually the integrated gpu is not as bad as I thought! See here (different machine.. a very cool one!): https://youtu.be/66n1nylac0M?t=293 https://youtu.be/66n1nylac0M?t=293