4 ms·

Here in Florida, citrus greening has devastated the groves.

eth0up 3y ago
That... and grubby land grabs, cavalier/deranged development (Lennar), and ignorant newcomers who think making a subtropical keystone ecosystem conform to their hell of previous residence is justified by exorbitant checks and brutal disregard.
- greggsy 3y ago
  I’m interested to understand your concerns - is there one issue that you’d be able to expand on?
  - eth0up 3y ago
    It would be more difficult to expound on a single issue than multiple, and usually a lack of dynamic isn't well received here on HN. I'm confident that most folks know little of Florida and care even less. My comment made reference to the reckless development occurring here (and elsewhere) by eg Lennar. The aesthetics are self explanatory, but the tangible consequences are perhaps more insidious, particularly for those coming in from elsewhere who have minimal understanding of 'natural' Florida to compare to. Florida, before retention ponds and sewage reservoirs were lobbied to qualify as substitutes, comprised of extensive wetlands. Lennar and others will grab huge tracts of land and install the antithesis of what they removed. Vast arrays of identical, shoddily constructed 'homes' stacked tightly beside themselves. The landscaping consists of hybrid grass that requires heavy maintenance and the plants are often growing in a layer of imported construction sand which requires never ending fertilization. Beyond the glorified retention ponds that pose as lakes, no efforts are made to retain any vestige of the original landscape. Wildlife is severely displaced and an alien, and I think verifiably hostile terrain, now sits beside a formerly natural terrain, which is usually scheduled for additional projects of identical quality. Considering that books are written on the subject, it's not reasonable to summarize what's happening in Florida in single comment. The subject may be easily dismissed here as trivial in the carbon tunnel vision of wondrous 'hackers', but it's very real and recognized by many. If you're young enough, you'll see the future look back in great disgust at what has been done to this state and others. If all newcomers to Florida were constrained to visit only Disneyland, they'd probably and understandably think it was an accurate representation. Lennar is Disney, without any of the cool stuff.
ramesh31 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_greening_disease https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_greening_disease Seems this is could be a direct result of warming: "The Asian form, Ca. L. asiaticus is heat tolerant. This means the greening symptoms can develop at temperatures up to 35 °C. The African form, Ca. L. africanus, and American form, Ca. L. americanus, are heat sensitive, thus symptoms only develop when the temperature is in the range 20–25 °C."
- mcculley 3y ago
  I don’t understand how this follows. The Asian form could develop at temperatures less than 35°C also, right?
  - ramesh31 3y ago
    Point being the American form is the issue in Florida. Warmer winters means more time spent at 20–25°C, increasing the overall disease burden.
    - mcculley 3y ago
      I still don't understand how you arrive at this conclusion. I just did a quick pivot table of the data for 1901-2021 for Ft. Pierce, Florida, the region with which I am most familiar regarding the greening crisis. While the mean temperature has been increasing, the days spent between 20-25ºC seem to have no clear trend.
bigmattystyles 3y ago
Aren’t some growers able to grow in Georgia now, whereas they hadn’t been able to before? I seem to recall something about that.
- HankB99 3y ago
  I have no idea if that's true or not, but I wonder how long it would take to establish orchards further north - time to realize it's possible and time to get the trees to production.
- hattmall 3y ago
  Yes there are citrus groves in Georgia. I don't think it's that they hadn't previously been able to so much as the agricultural dynamics makes it more reasonable now. It may be short lived though as the solar farms seem to be the fastest growing land usage now.
webninja 3y ago
Yep. However some new varieties, such as Sugarbelle Oranges are an are resistant to Citrus Greening and have won some taste tests.

That... and grubby land grabs, cavalier/deranged development (Lennar), and ignorant newcomers who think making a subtropical keystone ecosystem conform to their hell of previous residence is justified by exorbitant checks and brutal disregard.

greggsy 3y ago
I’m interested to understand your concerns - is there one issue that you’d be able to expand on?
- eth0up 3y ago
  It would be more difficult to expound on a single issue than multiple, and usually a lack of dynamic isn't well received here on HN. I'm confident that most folks know little of Florida and care even less. My comment made reference to the reckless development occurring here (and elsewhere) by eg Lennar. The aesthetics are self explanatory, but the tangible consequences are perhaps more insidious, particularly for those coming in from elsewhere who have minimal understanding of 'natural' Florida to compare to. Florida, before retention ponds and sewage reservoirs were lobbied to qualify as substitutes, comprised of extensive wetlands. Lennar and others will grab huge tracts of land and install the antithesis of what they removed. Vast arrays of identical, shoddily constructed 'homes' stacked tightly beside themselves. The landscaping consists of hybrid grass that requires heavy maintenance and the plants are often growing in a layer of imported construction sand which requires never ending fertilization. Beyond the glorified retention ponds that pose as lakes, no efforts are made to retain any vestige of the original landscape. Wildlife is severely displaced and an alien, and I think verifiably hostile terrain, now sits beside a formerly natural terrain, which is usually scheduled for additional projects of identical quality. Considering that books are written on the subject, it's not reasonable to summarize what's happening in Florida in single comment. The subject may be easily dismissed here as trivial in the carbon tunnel vision of wondrous 'hackers', but it's very real and recognized by many. If you're young enough, you'll see the future look back in great disgust at what has been done to this state and others. If all newcomers to Florida were constrained to visit only Disneyland, they'd probably and understandably think it was an accurate representation. Lennar is Disney, without any of the cool stuff.

ramesh31 3y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_greening_disease https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_greening_disease Seems this is could be a direct result of warming: "The Asian form, Ca. L. asiaticus is heat tolerant. This means the greening symptoms can develop at temperatures up to 35 °C. The African form, Ca. L. africanus, and American form, Ca. L. americanus, are heat sensitive, thus symptoms only develop when the temperature is in the range 20–25 °C."

mcculley 3y ago
I don’t understand how this follows. The Asian form could develop at temperatures less than 35°C also, right?
- ramesh31 3y ago
  Point being the American form is the issue in Florida. Warmer winters means more time spent at 20–25°C, increasing the overall disease burden.
  - mcculley 3y ago
    I still don't understand how you arrive at this conclusion. I just did a quick pivot table of the data for 1901-2021 for Ft. Pierce, Florida, the region with which I am most familiar regarding the greening crisis. While the mean temperature has been increasing, the days spent between 20-25ºC seem to have no clear trend.

bigmattystyles 3y ago

Aren’t some growers able to grow in Georgia now, whereas they hadn’t been able to before? I seem to recall something about that.

HankB99 3y ago
I have no idea if that's true or not, but I wonder how long it would take to establish orchards further north - time to realize it's possible and time to get the trees to production.
hattmall 3y ago
Yes there are citrus groves in Georgia. I don't think it's that they hadn't previously been able to so much as the agricultural dynamics makes it more reasonable now. It may be short lived though as the solar farms seem to be the fastest growing land usage now.

webninja 3y ago

Yep. However some new varieties, such as Sugarbelle Oranges are an are resistant to Citrus Greening and have won some taste tests.