5 ms·

With the Republicans in disarray and the Democrats fielding Joe Biden, it seems like a good time for a 3rd party candidate for the 2024 election. Possibly the m

With the Republicans in disarray and the Democrats fielding Joe Biden, it seems like a good time for a 3rd party candidate for the 2024 election. Possibly the most realistic context for an actual shot at a 3rd party presidency that I've ever seen.

theshrike79 3y ago
Americans will never vote a 3rd party in mass. _Everything_ is built on "us vs them", a third party would confuse people too much.
- Kreutzer 3y ago
  I agree. But both parties also actively obstruct third party candidates from appearing on states' ballots. For example: https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8 https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8
timeon 3y ago
US has two-party system. You can't have 3rd party with First-past-the-post and Electoral College.
- qclibre22 3y ago
  Electoral college is not first past the post.
  - timeon 3y ago
    You have maybe missed word and I used between those two. Because my post was not clear enough that I was talking in general about both presidential and congress elections.
- oldbbsnickname 3y ago
  Yep. Passing the NPVIC is the primary way forward to regulate the Electoral College to respect the popular vote. There is too much polarization and utopian-adjacent extremists in the US political system at present. It would take some careful thought how to improve on what the founders could not anticipate, but the current system needs a check & balance on all 3 of POTUS, COTUS, and SCOTUS to replace an unfit-for-office official. One possibility: Perhaps a 4th branch of government with appointed-for-life by sortition panel of elders who are a safety net "board of directors" whose only function is removal of a particularly unfit elected official by unanimous vote. Their only qualifications for candidacy is that they must be of unreproachable integrity, be at least 45, have no political ties, hold no other office, and have no financial conflicts of interest. A removed elected official would be replaced according to the succession plan for their role, a special election. Another, more radical possibility: Do away with all political parties, unlimited dark money campaign financing, and populist voting of media celebrities. Instead, fill the highest elected offices by sortition of credentialed professionals for a single 2 year term. Instead of political parties, coalitions would form around positions on issues (more nuanced than parliamentary coalition governments). COTUS and POTUS would still exist, but they would be reduced to organizational administrators who don't need to pander to billionaires. While it takes away the illusion of a sacred freedom, it replaces it with the leadership of uncorrupted, educated people who aren't constantly seeking the approval of campaign donors.
mcphage 3y ago
Yeah, who would possibly vote for Joe Biden—a successful, stable, and reliable president?
- jfengel 3y ago
  I keep hearing comments like that, even from people otherwise in Biden's side. I try to avoid the news; what I hear is only the stuff that creeps over my barriers (and is hopefully in some sense "important"). Biden seems to be dull but moderately effective. He's had no great legislative triumphs, but that's no surprise. The few things he's tried to do dramatically, like student loan forgiveness, have been slapped down by the Supreme Court -- again, no surprise. His son appears to be a real jackass, but only after you factor out vast amounts of outright lies. He's successfully supported the war in Ukraine, kept inflation and gas prices from getting all that much worse, oversaw the pandemic and transition out of it. Not thrilling, but competent. And yet his approval levels are worse than those of a guy who is literally under indictment for, among other things, mishandling vast amounts of classified material. Is there something I'm missing? Or do people just want something that the President can't, and shouldn't, do?
  - mcphage 3y ago
    > Is there something I'm missing? Or do people just want something that the President can't, and shouldn't, do? I dunno, I don't get it either. "Dull but moderately effective" seems pretty damn good after the previous 4 years. Yeah, it would be nice to have an inspiring leader that brings the country together, but there's no way I'd give up "dull but moderately effective" for the slim chance that there's an inspiring leader out there and that they could get elected, and be effective in office. So... yeah. I have trouble taking people who don't want him to re-run seriously. 81 million people voted for him, hoping he'd be better than the other guy. So hopefully they'll turn up again now that they know they were right!
soupfordummies 3y ago
Almost kinda seems like we're seeing a fork of the Republican party right now.

theshrike79 3y ago

Americans will never vote a 3rd party in mass. _Everything_ is built on "us vs them", a third party would confuse people too much.

Kreutzer 3y ago
I agree. But both parties also actively obstruct third party candidates from appearing on states' ballots. For example: https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8 https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8

timeon 3y ago

US has two-party system. You can't have 3rd party with First-past-the-post and Electoral College.

qclibre22 3y ago
Electoral college is not first past the post.
- timeon 3y ago
  You have maybe missed word and I used between those two. Because my post was not clear enough that I was talking in general about both presidential and congress elections.
oldbbsnickname 3y ago
Yep. Passing the NPVIC is the primary way forward to regulate the Electoral College to respect the popular vote. There is too much polarization and utopian-adjacent extremists in the US political system at present. It would take some careful thought how to improve on what the founders could not anticipate, but the current system needs a check & balance on all 3 of POTUS, COTUS, and SCOTUS to replace an unfit-for-office official. One possibility: Perhaps a 4th branch of government with appointed-for-life by sortition panel of elders who are a safety net "board of directors" whose only function is removal of a particularly unfit elected official by unanimous vote. Their only qualifications for candidacy is that they must be of unreproachable integrity, be at least 45, have no political ties, hold no other office, and have no financial conflicts of interest. A removed elected official would be replaced according to the succession plan for their role, a special election. Another, more radical possibility: Do away with all political parties, unlimited dark money campaign financing, and populist voting of media celebrities. Instead, fill the highest elected offices by sortition of credentialed professionals for a single 2 year term. Instead of political parties, coalitions would form around positions on issues (more nuanced than parliamentary coalition governments). COTUS and POTUS would still exist, but they would be reduced to organizational administrators who don't need to pander to billionaires. While it takes away the illusion of a sacred freedom, it replaces it with the leadership of uncorrupted, educated people who aren't constantly seeking the approval of campaign donors.

mcphage 3y ago

Yeah, who would possibly vote for Joe Biden—a successful, stable, and reliable president?

jfengel 3y ago
I keep hearing comments like that, even from people otherwise in Biden's side. I try to avoid the news; what I hear is only the stuff that creeps over my barriers (and is hopefully in some sense "important"). Biden seems to be dull but moderately effective. He's had no great legislative triumphs, but that's no surprise. The few things he's tried to do dramatically, like student loan forgiveness, have been slapped down by the Supreme Court -- again, no surprise. His son appears to be a real jackass, but only after you factor out vast amounts of outright lies. He's successfully supported the war in Ukraine, kept inflation and gas prices from getting all that much worse, oversaw the pandemic and transition out of it. Not thrilling, but competent. And yet his approval levels are worse than those of a guy who is literally under indictment for, among other things, mishandling vast amounts of classified material. Is there something I'm missing? Or do people just want something that the President can't, and shouldn't, do?
- mcphage 3y ago
  > Is there something I'm missing? Or do people just want something that the President can't, and shouldn't, do? I dunno, I don't get it either. "Dull but moderately effective" seems pretty damn good after the previous 4 years. Yeah, it would be nice to have an inspiring leader that brings the country together, but there's no way I'd give up "dull but moderately effective" for the slim chance that there's an inspiring leader out there and that they could get elected, and be effective in office. So... yeah. I have trouble taking people who don't want him to re-run seriously. 81 million people voted for him, hoping he'd be better than the other guy. So hopefully they'll turn up again now that they know they were right!

soupfordummies 3y ago

Almost kinda seems like we're seeing a fork of the Republican party right now.