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Kevin McCarthy ousted as speaker in Republican-led House
- cocacola1 3y agoWelcome to the clown show. 15 ballots in January for this. Republicans need to get their house in order. Its embarrassing. Or, at least, it should be. First time in history the Speaker’s been ejected like this.
- zolbrek 3y agoIt's my understanding that he didn't live up to his side of the bargain struck with Gaetz & Co. to become speaker, so Gaetz acted accordingly.
- theshrike79 3y ago[flagged]
- azinman2 3y ago> The only solution is for Republicans to start working with Democrats across the isle and just ignore the clowns. That was the reason given for his ousting.
- zzzeek 3y agoall Democrats voted against him, so he certainly didn't "work with the Democrats" by their measure. basically he made friends with noone. the next speaker should be a little more careful
- tzs 3y agoazinman2 is talking about the recent deal to avoid a government shutdown, which got 209 Democrat votes and 126 Republican votes.
- logicchains 3y ago>The only solution is for Republicans to start working with Democrats across the isle and just ignore the clowns. Those "clowns" actually represent the views of the republican voter base, not donors in the military-industry complex. A decade ago democrats would have been celebrating an anti-war win like this, but now roles have swapped and democrats have become the party of the warmongers.
- DaveFr 3y agoIt's not anti-war for a country to defend itself against an invader, and Democrats have been and are still against wars of aggression.
- logicchains 3y agoIt's absolutely a pro-war position to fight defending _another country_ from an invader, a country that isn't even an ally.
- DaveFr 3y agoThe US isn't at war in Ukraine, we're not fighting there. Nobody who's actually anti-war looks at Russia's invasion and says "oh that's fine let it happen", everyone supports the right to defend yourself.
- logicchains 3y agoThe US is sending crazy amounts of money over there while average Americans are seeing their living standards get worse and worse. Grassroots republicans want Ukraine to fight their own war with their own money, not keep sending money over their while Americans go hungry.
- DaveFr 3y agoSo then we're not worrying about the "anti-war" position anymore, alright. I mean, grassroots Republicans elected Reagan who beat the Soviets and Bush who wanted to "fight them over there so we don't face them here", they're certainly comfortable with spending money on the military. They haven't historically wanted to spend that money on welfare though, so I'm not sure that Americans are going hungry because of Ukraine.
- swsdsailor 3y ago[flagged]
- monero-xmr 3y agoPolitics is a clown show for me period - both sides. I like the chaos. The government that governs best is the one that governs least - so I’m always rooting for shutdowns, gridlock, automatic spending cuts, etc.
- KerrAvon 3y agoThis is a small child's view of how things work.
- monero-xmr 3y agoOnly a small child thinks one side is “good” and the other is “bad”
- xeromal 3y agoI'm somewhat in agreeance. I don't want a government that's in such lockstop that everything passes.
- mschuster91 3y agoMost of Europe happens to work just fine under that model.
- xeromal 3y agoThat's why I said I and not in the second person. I'm not interested personally.
- KerrAvon 3y agoThey either need to make peace with the Democrats and lose their primaries in 2024 to total MAGA nutjobs, or make peace with the MAGA nutjobs and lose the Biden districts in 2024. Either way, they lose the House in 2024. Making peace with the Democrats would allow them to retain some dignity, but after 2016 that's not been a high priority for them. So I expect the clown show to continue.
- EA-3167 3y agoThe things they needed to do to avoid this scenario are all in the past, they're in the "Find Out" phase of the program now. Going with the Southern Strategy, then amping it up over and over, the chicanery around W.'s election, and then throwing it all in on Trump and the Tea Party. These were all choices that set the stage for this meltdown and loss, and now it's too late to both win AND persevere.
- mrguyorama 3y agoBut this is exactly what so many of them want. How many conservatives are convinced that a deadlocked or obstructionist congress is "better" for whatever reason, as if PURPOSEFUL government incompetency is a virtue
- lalajollyton 3y agoWith the Republicans in disarray and the Democrats fielding Joe Biden, it seems like a good time for a 3rd party candidate for the 2024 election. Possibly the most realistic context for an actual shot at a 3rd party presidency that I've ever seen.
- theshrike79 3y agoAmericans will never vote a 3rd party in mass. _Everything_ is built on "us vs them", a third party would confuse people too much.
- Kreutzer 3y agoI agree. But both parties also actively obstruct third party candidates from appearing on states' ballots. For example: https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8 https://apnews.com/cbd7947a020a1c5983a69e804ce3a5f8
- timeon 3y agoUS has two-party system. You can't have 3rd party with First-past-the-post and Electoral College.
- qclibre22 3y agoElectoral college is not first past the post.
- timeon 3y agoYou have maybe missed word and I used between those two. Because my post was not clear enough that I was talking in general about both presidential and congress elections.
- oldbbsnickname 3y agoYep. Passing the NPVIC is the primary way forward to regulate the Electoral College to respect the popular vote. There is too much polarization and utopian-adjacent extremists in the US political system at present. It would take some careful thought how to improve on what the founders could not anticipate, but the current system needs a check & balance on all 3 of POTUS, COTUS, and SCOTUS to replace an unfit-for-office official. One possibility: Perhaps a 4th branch of government with appointed-for-life by sortition panel of elders who are a safety net "board of directors" whose only function is removal of a particularly unfit elected official by unanimous vote. Their only qualifications for candidacy is that they must be of unreproachable integrity, be at least 45, have no political ties, hold no other office, and have no financial conflicts of interest. A removed elected official would be replaced according to the succession plan for their role, a special election. Another, more radical possibility: Do away with all political parties, unlimited dark money campaign financing, and populist voting of media celebrities. Instead, fill the highest elected offices by sortition of credentialed professionals for a single 2 year term. Instead of political parties, coalitions would form around positions on issues (more nuanced than parliamentary coalition governments). COTUS and POTUS would still exist, but they would be reduced to organizational administrators who don't need to pander to billionaires. While it takes away the illusion of a sacred freedom, it replaces it with the leadership of uncorrupted, educated people who aren't constantly seeking the approval of campaign donors.
- tootie 3y agoHis speakership was hanging by a thread from day 1. I don't see any path to a new Speaker so long as the Freedom Caucus are intent on watching the world burn.
- mrguyorama 3y agoThey are okay with that, because in 40ish days that means the government shuts down, which means no more funding for Ukraine, which for some reason is really really important to the Freedom Caucus
- xeromal 3y agoHe sold his soul to the devil to become speaker and the devil kicked him out
- mcphage 3y ago> I don't see any path to a new Speaker so long as the Freedom Caucus are intent on watching the world burn. Well, there’s always reaching across the aisle.
- tootie 3y agoMcCarthy had a chance to do that and came out saying he would not be willing to give Dems anything at all to save his job. Right now the GOP agenda is 100% anti-liberal politics. The impeachment hearings taking place with no credible evidence is exhibit A. Advocating a government shutdown is the other. Dems basic ask would just be "can we debate some actual legislation" and the answer from the right has consistently been "no". The GOP have a 9 vote majority, 1 of them is under indictment and 10 completely unreasonable maniacs who just want to cause chaos. It's crazy but the only plausible option I see right now is for 10 GOP moderates to back Hakeem Jeffries.
- mcphage 3y ago> McCarthy had a chance to do that and came out saying he would not be willing to give Dems anything at all to save his job. Yup. Which seems dumb, but... y'know, maybe he didn't want to save his job? He probably didn't want to go out like this, but there's not too much shame in being ousted by crazies. He got his name on the list of speakers of the house, and maybe he just doesn't want to do it anymore. > It's crazy but the only plausible option I see right now is for 10 GOP moderates to back Hakeem Jeffries. I suspect that would be a bridge too far. But getting a small number of Democrats—especially in tight districts—to vote for a moderate Republican speaker, in exchange for some concessions, probably could happen. I don't know if it would—the new Speaker would probably also need to be in a district where having Democrat support isn't seen much as a bad thing, and probably need assurances that they wouldn't be primaried. On the other hand, courting that Democrat support might cost them enough GOP support that they'd never get elected anyway. I dunno, shit's complicated.
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoWasn't Gaetz the one that took underage girls across state lines? Is this the guy Republican's want to follow?
- readthenotes1 3y agoThere wasn't enough evidence to bring any charges. Apparently, the witnesses weren't credible enough. Doesn't mean he didn't do it, but doesn't mean he did.
- westcort 3y agoHe was let go based on his political position. The Venmo transactions look more than a little incriminating: https://www.thedailybeast.com/gaetz-paid-accused-sex-trafficker-who-then-venmod-teen https://www.thedailybeast.com/gaetz-paid-accused-sex-traffic...
- GiorgioG 3y agoI wish I could not do my job (collectively all of Congress) and somehow manage to keep it until I die.
- 0xDEF 3y agoThe anti-NATO pro-Russian wing of the Republican party becoming increasingly dominant sends a worrying message across the Atlantic especially to the Baltic countries. Honestly at this point I don't see any other option than the Baltic countries developing nuclear weapons.
- dang 3y agoOrdinary political articles like this one are off-topic for HN. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Some political overlap can be ok, but for an article to be a good HN submission, the high-order bit needs to be intellectual curiosity. In case anyone wants more explanation, I've written extensively about how we moderate political stories on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... Edit: Here are a couple examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22902490 (April 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844 (Nov 2019) and some related points: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 (July 2020) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 (May 2018)
- zzzeek 3y agoOK, I will keep this in mind, however what's different about this particular political story is that it's also extremely historic, nothing like this has ever occurred in the history of the US and this is the first speaker to ever be removed in this way; at the very least this kind of instability can have impacts on things like financial markets. I would not share a simply political story like how Joe Biden is doing in the polls are something, that's clearly a stupid story.
- quesera 3y agoI'd say it's "historic" but it's not important. It will roil markets less than a shutdown would, and that story would not be particularly HN-worthy either. Sometimes I wish there was a way to designate some posts "off topic" but still be visible on the front page -- like a topical Jubilee Day. I'm genuinely interested in what some of the HN crowd think about (some of) the non-tech, non-intellectually-curious stuff that goes on in the world. But I suspect that we'd all just turn out to be dopey ignoramuses, opining well beyond our knowledge, and the discussion would devolve into the same canned narrative crap that we see everywhere else. HN probably has nothing to contribute to the discussion, and policing that line through downvotes and flagging is almost certainly the prophylaxis that keeps the infection at bay. Alas.
- elfbargpt 3y agoPolitics aside, there is one mechanical aspect about this I find interesting. Basically if you have a majority vote split down party lines, all it takes is a small group (size greater than the difference between majority and minority parties) to wield quite a lot of influence. Gaetz seems like he's calling the shots in this gambit. I guess this has always been true, but interesting to watch it play out.
- matthewfelgate 3y agoI suspect that the Democrats may regret not intervening when McCarthy was ousted, especially if, in the coming weeks, the Speaker job ends up with a more right-leaning candidate.