6 ms·

When I go into the office, it’s after taking a brisk 21 minute walk or a 6 minute train ride. I listen to music. I prepare myself mentally for the day. When I’m

by isykt 3y ago

When I go into the office, it’s after taking a brisk 21 minute walk or a 6 minute train ride. I listen to music. I prepare myself mentally for the day. When I’m done, I leave my computer and my work phone sitting on my desk, and walk or take the train home. I don’t devote a single square foot of my home to my employer. When I’m home, it has nothing to do with work. I would never allow my employer to colonize my home.

digdugdirk 3y ago
That sounds like an ideal lifestyle. I wish everyone had a similar situation, but unfortunately it's all too rare.
Retric 3y ago
Do you not have a computer at home? Because devoting a few gigs of my Home PC to work is easily worth avoiding 12 minutes per day on the train + however long it takes walking to the station and waiting for the train twice. Really I used to live 1 subway stop from the office and WFH was still a significant time saver.
- unshavedyak 3y ago
  Yup. I'd pay (and do! for 10 years now) my own dime to maintain a good PC solely for work. It's a stupidly easy investment for me compared to 1-3h of commute every day. I also now require extra rooms for offices anytime i look at homes. The life balance is just so amazing for me i'm never giving it up, if i can. I feel respected in a way i never thought possible, before.
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  You're reducing WFH to just avoiding a commute. In my case, I found that WFH only was isolating, impacted focus, and cut me off from the information flow of the organization, something electronic means cannot really substitute. I have a sense of being more involved and informed about the business instead of being plugged into the Matrix and receiving a paltry trickle of information over narrow channels. The benefits of hybrid for me offset the burden of commuting enough to justify coming in.
  - markhnthoraway 3y ago
    > In my case, I found that WFH only was isolating, impacted focus, and cut me off from the information flow of the organization, something electronic means cannot really substitute. I worried about feeling isolated but found I didn't feel that way. And I think generally WFH has improved my ability to focus. My company is fully remote so there are not many in-person channels for information to flow. Before the pandemic I would not have taken a remote job, I would have not been sure it would work out for me, but having done it for 3 years now, I'm real happy with it. I do still like seeing people and will go out to work occasionally or cowork with friends. Traffic where I live is horrible though and avoiding a 30 minute dance with death twice a day is an amazing reduction in stress levels. I guess it's going to work out that this is just one other thing to consider about a workplace and there's no one right answer where all businesses should do the same thing, people need the options.
  - Retric 3y ago
    I always felt more connected to my coworkers when we are regularly working from home. The office is such a false environment people just act very differently.
    - ideamotor 3y ago
      The office is the real environment. When working from home, people are more isolated and heavily restricted by silos and tracking systems. That’s the false environment. Compare talking to a friend in person to texting them from miles away.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 3y ago
        That’s far from my experience. It sounds like you’re dealing with a horrible job / company here.
    - deprecative 3y ago
      > I always felt more connected to my coworkers when we are regularly working from home. The office is such a false environment people just act very differently. Jokes on you, I don't care if my coworkers get hit by a bus either way! I cannot stand anyone I work with. Every meeting that should be 15 is now an hour minimum why? People want to chat and I sit there with my soul leaving my body totally unable to do anything but smile fake and try not to look like I'm dead.
- isykt 3y ago
  > Do you not have a computer at home? I have several and I would never install work software or store work materials on it. The privacy and security risk alone is just not worth it — and I work for a company that respects privacy. I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. I value my commute tremendously. It’s one of my favorite parts of the day.
  - Retric 3y ago
    VM or hot swapping a drive works fine. > I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. Yet you’re seemingly happy to shell out your own time and money to pay for a train trip when it rains. I doubt your arguments here.
    - isykt 3y ago
      My employer pays for transit. They didn’t buy my umbrella though, so you got me there
  - deprecative 3y ago
    > I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. But you would maintain a car to [do] work for a company. I'm going to have to take my three hours a day that I have working remote, more if you include prep time to even leave the house, and spend that on bumper to bumper traffic baby!
    - isykt 3y ago
      I don’t own car.
  - hightrix 3y ago
    > I value my commute tremendously. It’s one of my favorite parts of the day. My guess is that you either don’t live in the US or live in one of the small handful of cities that have decent public transportation. Sitting in SoCal traffic for an hour both ways every day will certainly change your mind about commutes.
- mr_mitm 3y ago
  Every thread about WFH immediately devolves into people listing the pros and cons of WFH vs RTO. Guys, it's a matter of preference and dependent on individual circumstances.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    The problem is that RTO companies refuse to recognize that, and are making "do it or get fired" demands of employees regardless of where they find it productive to work. Those more productive in an office have always had coworking spaces available. Those who work better from home can get stuffed under these mandates. So whose preferences really matter here? Who holds the power in the equation? I'll give you a hint: it's not anyone who actually cares how productive work gets done.
  - ike2792 3y ago
    +1 to this. I work with people who would love returning to office and others who are adamantly against it. Even though I overall prefer WFH there are still things I miss from being in the office. I used to commute an hour each way by bus and that was some of my favorite time; I could read, sleep, listen to podcasts, whatever. OTOH now that I WFH full time I can work out before work and help run kids around right after work.
  - hightrix 3y ago
    In addition to what others have said, the biggest issue is that RTOers want to force their will upon WFHers because they don’t want to work in an empty office. I get it, social people want to be social, but forcing us WFHers into your paradigm because you don’t want to be lonely is not the answer, it creates resentment from both parties. WFHers sit there with headphones on, blocking out the world while RTOers wander the halls looking for interaction. It is absolutely a difficult problem for modern companies to deal with. Hybrid seems like the best/worst solution so that no one is happy and both parties compromise.
    - addicted 3y ago
      The problem with WFHers is that they don’t realize that they’re like blue collar workers in the 80s voting to offshore their jobs away.
- vlunkr 3y ago
  What's so bad about a short commute like that? It's good for you to physically get up and look around, and mentally to either clear your head or listen to a podcast/music.
  - mathgeek 3y ago
    As the OP said, they go for a run with that time.
    - vlunkr 3y ago
      Ok, the thread here is someone talking about a 6 to 21 minute commute. IMO that's not a significant amount of time saved.
      - Clamchop 3y ago
        We can count getting your things in order, gussying yourself up so no one sees you for the garbage that you are, and just kinda... not wanting to some of the time. And framing it as 40 minutes saved is kind of missing part of the story, because it's every day. Forever! That in fact will amount to A LOT of time saved. Your employer would care about a 40 minute change in your hours one way or the other; why don't you? Packed lunches or eating out. Shit coffee further tainted by the lingering smell of microwaved tuna. That feeling that you have to be seen looking busy even if you're not doing anything or just really need a break. And there's Steve, who's always smacking on gum and humming while he works. You're awful, Steve.
        vlunkr 3y ago
        This is why the conclusion of the study makes sense to me. I enjoy my short commute as a buffer between work and life, but sometimes I just don't want to, so I stay home occasionally. Also, I think some WFH zealots on HN forget that other people may not have the mean, or the space, or the internet connection to have a nice office at home, and have pets or children that can be just as distracting as co-workers.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
philote 3y ago
To each their own. Personally, I like being able to work and live where I choose and not be tied to a specific location due to availability of jobs. And I'm still able to shut down my laptop at the end of the day and ignore work until the next workday. My employer has "colonized" maybe 25sq ft of my home and I'm ok with that.
- VincentEvans 3y ago
  Odd that you are being downvoted. I work remote and travel around going wherever I want. The idea that my mental health and lifestyle can be “improved” by taking away my freedom and making me go into the office a number of days a week is preposterous. I do meet up with my coworkers in person at a regular and infrequent cadence, and that’s always nice and pleasant. But that’s not what qualifies “hybrid” by any reasonable definition.
- isykt 3y ago
  I paid $983/sqft for my apartment in the city, so unless my company wants to give me a $25k tax free bonus, and pay for a desk, chair, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and my internet, it’s a bad deal for me. Glad it works for you though.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Are you expecting the right reference is for them to buy the 25 ft^2? Or just rent it for the time you're employed there?
    - isykt 3y ago
      I’m expecting them to give me $25k tax free to devote space in my home for the purpose of working during my work hours. I retain ownership of the property itself, but not the equipment; I would also reserve the right to use the space as I please outside of work hours, because it’s located in my home. Those are my WFH terms. Companies can take those or provide me an office.
      - 3y ago
wredue 3y ago
We provide 24/7 on call support, so that’s not going to happen, as much as the sentiment is agreeable.
MSFT_Edging 3y ago
I'm extraordinarily sensitive to my work environment so I rather just have full control over it at home rather than go into an office where I have to spend half the morning aligning monitors and searching for cables since I no longer have a permanent desk. But I'm glad you have something that works for you.
zzyzxd 3y ago
Going to the office is not that bad for me, _most_ of the time. - But once or twice every month, I forget to bring something I need to the office (phone, earphone, water bottle, keys...etc) and that makes that day suck. - Sometimes it rains and I get wet. - Sometimes I eat something bad and have diarrhea and need to use the dirty public toilet. - If my wife messages me saying she's sick, I need to sit in traffic for an hour before I can see her. - Yesterday I got up 30 minutes late than usual and had to drive during rush hours, that's one more hour of my life. - If I don't go to office, I only drive for up to an hour on weekend for fun. But now I spend 10x time in the car on weekdays and that's 10x more chance to have an accident. None of these happens everyday, but when they do, they are just extra headache to deal with only because I need to go to office. If a few sqft in my home is all it takes to completely eliminate all of them, I would take that any day.
kkfx 3y ago
When you WFH you're not really an employee but a kind of consultant, who is paid by the company ALSO for yours home office... Probably many companies hate WFH because of this: when people will realize the value of freedom at their home, their work can be seen as mere economical contract without tie, so people will be more precarious but so will be companies and that means we surpass the need of unionization by a kind of new market equilibrium.

by isykt 3y ago

digdugdirk 3y ago

That sounds like an ideal lifestyle. I wish everyone had a similar situation, but unfortunately it's all too rare.

Retric 3y ago

Do you not have a computer at home? Because devoting a few gigs of my Home PC to work is easily worth avoiding 12 minutes per day on the train + however long it takes walking to the station and waiting for the train twice. Really I used to live 1 subway stop from the office and WFH was still a significant time saver.

unshavedyak 3y ago
Yup. I'd pay (and do! for 10 years now) my own dime to maintain a good PC solely for work. It's a stupidly easy investment for me compared to 1-3h of commute every day. I also now require extra rooms for offices anytime i look at homes. The life balance is just so amazing for me i'm never giving it up, if i can. I feel respected in a way i never thought possible, before.
lo_zamoyski 3y ago
You're reducing WFH to just avoiding a commute. In my case, I found that WFH only was isolating, impacted focus, and cut me off from the information flow of the organization, something electronic means cannot really substitute. I have a sense of being more involved and informed about the business instead of being plugged into the Matrix and receiving a paltry trickle of information over narrow channels. The benefits of hybrid for me offset the burden of commuting enough to justify coming in.
- markhnthoraway 3y ago
  > In my case, I found that WFH only was isolating, impacted focus, and cut me off from the information flow of the organization, something electronic means cannot really substitute. I worried about feeling isolated but found I didn't feel that way. And I think generally WFH has improved my ability to focus. My company is fully remote so there are not many in-person channels for information to flow. Before the pandemic I would not have taken a remote job, I would have not been sure it would work out for me, but having done it for 3 years now, I'm real happy with it. I do still like seeing people and will go out to work occasionally or cowork with friends. Traffic where I live is horrible though and avoiding a 30 minute dance with death twice a day is an amazing reduction in stress levels. I guess it's going to work out that this is just one other thing to consider about a workplace and there's no one right answer where all businesses should do the same thing, people need the options.
- Retric 3y ago
  I always felt more connected to my coworkers when we are regularly working from home. The office is such a false environment people just act very differently.
  - ideamotor 3y ago
    The office is the real environment. When working from home, people are more isolated and heavily restricted by silos and tracking systems. That’s the false environment. Compare talking to a friend in person to texting them from miles away.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 3y ago
      That’s far from my experience. It sounds like you’re dealing with a horrible job / company here.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    > I always felt more connected to my coworkers when we are regularly working from home. The office is such a false environment people just act very differently. Jokes on you, I don't care if my coworkers get hit by a bus either way! I cannot stand anyone I work with. Every meeting that should be 15 is now an hour minimum why? People want to chat and I sit there with my soul leaving my body totally unable to do anything but smile fake and try not to look like I'm dead.
isykt 3y ago
> Do you not have a computer at home? I have several and I would never install work software or store work materials on it. The privacy and security risk alone is just not worth it — and I work for a company that respects privacy. I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. I value my commute tremendously. It’s one of my favorite parts of the day.
- Retric 3y ago
  VM or hot swapping a drive works fine. > I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. Yet you’re seemingly happy to shell out your own time and money to pay for a train trip when it rains. I doubt your arguments here.
  - isykt 3y ago
    My employer pays for transit. They didn’t buy my umbrella though, so you got me there
- deprecative 3y ago
  > I would also never pay any money to maintain a computer to do work for a company. But you would maintain a car to [do] work for a company. I'm going to have to take my three hours a day that I have working remote, more if you include prep time to even leave the house, and spend that on bumper to bumper traffic baby!
  - isykt 3y ago
    I don’t own car.
- hightrix 3y ago
  > I value my commute tremendously. It’s one of my favorite parts of the day. My guess is that you either don’t live in the US or live in one of the small handful of cities that have decent public transportation. Sitting in SoCal traffic for an hour both ways every day will certainly change your mind about commutes.
mr_mitm 3y ago
Every thread about WFH immediately devolves into people listing the pros and cons of WFH vs RTO. Guys, it's a matter of preference and dependent on individual circumstances.
- klardotsh 3y ago
  The problem is that RTO companies refuse to recognize that, and are making "do it or get fired" demands of employees regardless of where they find it productive to work. Those more productive in an office have always had coworking spaces available. Those who work better from home can get stuffed under these mandates. So whose preferences really matter here? Who holds the power in the equation? I'll give you a hint: it's not anyone who actually cares how productive work gets done.
- ike2792 3y ago
  +1 to this. I work with people who would love returning to office and others who are adamantly against it. Even though I overall prefer WFH there are still things I miss from being in the office. I used to commute an hour each way by bus and that was some of my favorite time; I could read, sleep, listen to podcasts, whatever. OTOH now that I WFH full time I can work out before work and help run kids around right after work.
- hightrix 3y ago
  In addition to what others have said, the biggest issue is that RTOers want to force their will upon WFHers because they don’t want to work in an empty office. I get it, social people want to be social, but forcing us WFHers into your paradigm because you don’t want to be lonely is not the answer, it creates resentment from both parties. WFHers sit there with headphones on, blocking out the world while RTOers wander the halls looking for interaction. It is absolutely a difficult problem for modern companies to deal with. Hybrid seems like the best/worst solution so that no one is happy and both parties compromise.
  - addicted 3y ago
    The problem with WFHers is that they don’t realize that they’re like blue collar workers in the 80s voting to offshore their jobs away.
vlunkr 3y ago
What's so bad about a short commute like that? It's good for you to physically get up and look around, and mentally to either clear your head or listen to a podcast/music.
- mathgeek 3y ago
  As the OP said, they go for a run with that time.
  - vlunkr 3y ago
    Ok, the thread here is someone talking about a 6 to 21 minute commute. IMO that's not a significant amount of time saved.
    - Clamchop 3y ago
      We can count getting your things in order, gussying yourself up so no one sees you for the garbage that you are, and just kinda... not wanting to some of the time. And framing it as 40 minutes saved is kind of missing part of the story, because it's every day. Forever! That in fact will amount to A LOT of time saved. Your employer would care about a 40 minute change in your hours one way or the other; why don't you? Packed lunches or eating out. Shit coffee further tainted by the lingering smell of microwaved tuna. That feeling that you have to be seen looking busy even if you're not doing anything or just really need a break. And there's Steve, who's always smacking on gum and humming while he works. You're awful, Steve.
      - vlunkr 3y ago
        This is why the conclusion of the study makes sense to me. I enjoy my short commute as a buffer between work and life, but sometimes I just don't want to, so I stay home occasionally. Also, I think some WFH zealots on HN forget that other people may not have the mean, or the space, or the internet connection to have a nice office at home, and have pets or children that can be just as distracting as co-workers.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

philote 3y ago

To each their own. Personally, I like being able to work and live where I choose and not be tied to a specific location due to availability of jobs. And I'm still able to shut down my laptop at the end of the day and ignore work until the next workday. My employer has "colonized" maybe 25sq ft of my home and I'm ok with that.

VincentEvans 3y ago
Odd that you are being downvoted. I work remote and travel around going wherever I want. The idea that my mental health and lifestyle can be “improved” by taking away my freedom and making me go into the office a number of days a week is preposterous. I do meet up with my coworkers in person at a regular and infrequent cadence, and that’s always nice and pleasant. But that’s not what qualifies “hybrid” by any reasonable definition.
isykt 3y ago
I paid $983/sqft for my apartment in the city, so unless my company wants to give me a $25k tax free bonus, and pay for a desk, chair, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and my internet, it’s a bad deal for me. Glad it works for you though.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Are you expecting the right reference is for them to buy the 25 ft^2? Or just rent it for the time you're employed there?
  - isykt 3y ago
    I’m expecting them to give me $25k tax free to devote space in my home for the purpose of working during my work hours. I retain ownership of the property itself, but not the equipment; I would also reserve the right to use the space as I please outside of work hours, because it’s located in my home. Those are my WFH terms. Companies can take those or provide me an office.
    - 3y ago

wredue 3y ago

We provide 24/7 on call support, so that’s not going to happen, as much as the sentiment is agreeable.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago

I'm extraordinarily sensitive to my work environment so I rather just have full control over it at home rather than go into an office where I have to spend half the morning aligning monitors and searching for cables since I no longer have a permanent desk. But I'm glad you have something that works for you.

zzyzxd 3y ago

Going to the office is not that bad for me, _most_ of the time. - But once or twice every month, I forget to bring something I need to the office (phone, earphone, water bottle, keys...etc) and that makes that day suck. - Sometimes it rains and I get wet. - Sometimes I eat something bad and have diarrhea and need to use the dirty public toilet. - If my wife messages me saying she's sick, I need to sit in traffic for an hour before I can see her. - Yesterday I got up 30 minutes late than usual and had to drive during rush hours, that's one more hour of my life. - If I don't go to office, I only drive for up to an hour on weekend for fun. But now I spend 10x time in the car on weekdays and that's 10x more chance to have an accident. None of these happens everyday, but when they do, they are just extra headache to deal with only because I need to go to office. If a few sqft in my home is all it takes to completely eliminate all of them, I would take that any day.

kkfx 3y ago

When you WFH you're not really an employee but a kind of consultant, who is paid by the company ALSO for yours home office... Probably many companies hate WFH because of this: when people will realize the value of freedom at their home, their work can be seen as mere economical contract without tie, so people will be more precarious but so will be companies and that means we surpass the need of unionization by a kind of new market equilibrium.