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I’ve really come to doubt human ability to exercise free will in all but the rarest of cases. I wonder if SBF really had a moment where a stop/go decision was m

I’ve really come to doubt human ability to exercise free will in all but the rarest of cases. I wonder if SBF really had a moment where a stop/go decision was meaningfully available to him. If we’re all automatons, what’s the point of prison? I’ve been reading Michael Lewis’ account of SBF: he genuinely sounds unhinged.

timfsu 3y ago
Are you saying you don't think deterrence works? I am curious what you're learning about SBF though.
strangattractor 3y ago
Wouldn't being "automatons" be a good argument for prisons? If people's behavior is automatic then removing them from the rest of us seems like the only solution. If you believe in redemption, rehabilitation and change then a complicated system like we have seems inevitable. Sorry I've been binging "Inside the Worlds Toughest Prisons" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6322264/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6322264/
austinprete 3y ago
If we’re all automatons, there’s no _point_ in prison, but it also doesn’t matter. It’s just something we (automatically) place certain people in so they don’t (automatically) perform actions that society as a whole (automatically) disagrees with. But there’s no point arguing it because in your hypothetical free will-less world we don’t have a choice in the matter. But also we might argue it anyway because we don’t have a choice not to :)
bloppe 3y ago
It really doesn't matter if free will exists (however you want to define it). Harming others for personal gain must be punished, otherwise society breaks down.
kryptiskt 3y ago
We're even less kind to malfunctioning machinery than bad humans, so I don't think being treated as an automaton sounds like a desirable outcome for a criminal.
jabroni_salad 3y ago
I don't think the courts recognize determinism. It sucks that once you are in too deep, it's hard to stop, but you always had the option not to take the first step.
jowea 3y ago
Why couldn't he let Alamada Research burn down instead of letting it use FTX funds?
vharuck 3y ago
The lack of free will should mean punishment is more appropriate, because then a person's actions are a product of their nature and nurture. And punishment tips the scales of nurture toward "don't do that again."

timfsu 3y ago

Are you saying you don't think deterrence works? I am curious what you're learning about SBF though.

strangattractor 3y ago

Wouldn't being "automatons" be a good argument for prisons? If people's behavior is automatic then removing them from the rest of us seems like the only solution. If you believe in redemption, rehabilitation and change then a complicated system like we have seems inevitable. Sorry I've been binging "Inside the Worlds Toughest Prisons" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6322264/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6322264/

austinprete 3y ago

If we’re all automatons, there’s no _point_ in prison, but it also doesn’t matter. It’s just something we (automatically) place certain people in so they don’t (automatically) perform actions that society as a whole (automatically) disagrees with. But there’s no point arguing it because in your hypothetical free will-less world we don’t have a choice in the matter. But also we might argue it anyway because we don’t have a choice not to :)

bloppe 3y ago

It really doesn't matter if free will exists (however you want to define it). Harming others for personal gain must be punished, otherwise society breaks down.

kryptiskt 3y ago

We're even less kind to malfunctioning machinery than bad humans, so I don't think being treated as an automaton sounds like a desirable outcome for a criminal.

jabroni_salad 3y ago

I don't think the courts recognize determinism. It sucks that once you are in too deep, it's hard to stop, but you always had the option not to take the first step.

jowea 3y ago

Why couldn't he let Alamada Research burn down instead of letting it use FTX funds?

vharuck 3y ago

The lack of free will should mean punishment is more appropriate, because then a person's actions are a product of their nature and nurture. And punishment tips the scales of nurture toward "don't do that again."