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> Since you're against "punishment as a whole", I assume you by "punishment" mean "I want them to suffer for what they did"? Yeah, I clarified in a sibling com

> Since you're against "punishment as a whole", I assume you by "punishment" mean "I want them to suffer for what they did"? Yeah, I clarified in a sibling comment, but that's basically what it comes down to. I generally just don't think punishing people with the express purpose of making them suffer is a good thing. I think it's cruel, and I also don't think it actually works in regards to helping society long-term. The fact that it's sort of common knowledge that you'll be sexually assaulted in prison, and people seem bizarrely fine with that because "they deserve it" really disturbs me, for example. In regards to SBF specifically, I'm not convinced he won't try and run a similar scam again; if not in the US, then in another country with less strict securities laws. He doesn't appear to have any remorse about what he's done, and blamed everyone but himself for everything.

knorker 3y ago
I agree that we have no need for vengance against the criminal. But the fact that SBF would do it again is not a case for vengance/punishment, but for deterrence. And, frankly, it's harder to launch your next scam while you're currently incarcerated. I hear you saying "I don't want vengance, but…", but there's actually no contradiction there. You want deterrence and to prevent recidivism. And merely taking all his money, and all his parents money, is not actually a deterrence. But that doesn't mean prison is vengence/punishment for punishment's sake.
quesera 3y ago
> it's sort of common knowledge that you'll be sexually assaulted in prison While a blasé attitude toward such abuse is certainly reprehensible, I don't think there's any support for the magnitude you describe. Even the most dramatic statistics imply that prisoners are far more likely to not be assaulted. Official numbers are like 2-5%, activist numbers are in the 20% range. Anything greater than 0% is horrifying of course. Although FWIW I also checked official and activist numbers for non-incarcerated males and females in the US, and it's actually very similar. (Never been in prison, never been a victim, never been a perpetrator, not in law enforcement, not an activist, don't know what I'm talking about, but wish the problem could be understood honestly and eliminated completely.)
- tombert 3y ago
  I suppose that's what I get for relying on common knowledge. If that 20% number is right, that's completely terrifying. A 1 in 5 shot being sexually assaulted is still very high, and when I have argued with people about prison reform, they seem wholly uninterested in fixing the problem.

knorker 3y ago

I agree that we have no need for vengance against the criminal. But the fact that SBF would do it again is not a case for vengance/punishment, but for deterrence. And, frankly, it's harder to launch your next scam while you're currently incarcerated. I hear you saying "I don't want vengance, but…", but there's actually no contradiction there. You want deterrence and to prevent recidivism. And merely taking all his money, and all his parents money, is not actually a deterrence. But that doesn't mean prison is vengence/punishment for punishment's sake.

quesera 3y ago

> it's sort of common knowledge that you'll be sexually assaulted in prison While a blasé attitude toward such abuse is certainly reprehensible, I don't think there's any support for the magnitude you describe. Even the most dramatic statistics imply that prisoners are far more likely to not be assaulted. Official numbers are like 2-5%, activist numbers are in the 20% range. Anything greater than 0% is horrifying of course. Although FWIW I also checked official and activist numbers for non-incarcerated males and females in the US, and it's actually very similar. (Never been in prison, never been a victim, never been a perpetrator, not in law enforcement, not an activist, don't know what I'm talking about, but wish the problem could be understood honestly and eliminated completely.)

tombert 3y ago
I suppose that's what I get for relying on common knowledge. If that 20% number is right, that's completely terrifying. A 1 in 5 shot being sexually assaulted is still very high, and when I have argued with people about prison reform, they seem wholly uninterested in fixing the problem.