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I supported a few fleets of smartphones back in the windows mobile and blackberry days, when they all had replaceable batteries. Do you know what people did wh

I supported a few fleets of smartphones back in the windows mobile and blackberry days, when they all had replaceable batteries. Do you know what people did when the batteries died? They overwhelmingly bought a new phone. Just because something is technically modular doesn't mean that: 1. other people know how to diagnose the problem 2. other people want to spend time or effort repairing the phone 3. other people don't just want a new phone anyway While people on this forum are often power users or technically minded people who like spending mental cycles on their devices, this is not what other people are like. People who are purely users delegate the fixing of their devices to others.

kibwen 3y ago
> back in the windows mobile and blackberry days Back in the day, phones were improving so fast that upgrading often was naturally incentivized. These days, the tech has plateaued and phones are a commodity. How often does the average person replace their fridge? How often does the average person replace their hot water boiler? That's how often I want to replace my phone; closer to every ten years than every two years.
- kube-system 3y ago
  True, and people still do not repair their own fridge when it breaks. They either call the warranty line, an appliance repair shop, or an appliance store.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    The device still has to be repairable in order for the repair shop to do it affordably, and the same is true even if you then choose to buy a new one, because an old appliance that can be repaired and resold has a higher trade in value. The lack of repairability costs you money whether you do the repairs yourself or not.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      In most of the US, I would bet that skilled labor willing and able to do the job of going to people’s homes to do appliance repairs will be expensive enough such that any ~$1,000 appliance just gets replaced. My brother in law just called his 3 year old washer’s extended warranty line, and they didn’t even want to verify the issue. Immediately told him they were sending him a check for the amount he purchased the washer for, and all that was left was for him to buy a new one. I imagine the labor itself costs $100 per hour, and including travel time, you are looking at $300 just to diagnose the issue. Then a couple hundred for the part, and if they have to wait for it, come back, that’s another $300. And you are already losing money. I imagine that is why Citibank got rid of their 4 year Costco appliance warranty.
      - monocasa 3y ago
        That's for the new stuff that isn't designed to be repaired. My circa 1990s freezer broke a couple years ago. First guy quoted us "not worth repairing". Second guy did the job for two hours of $100/hr labor and a $60 part. Told us that if it were a modern device it wouldn't have been worth it because of the labor, but the freezer was old enough that everything that can break was designed to be easily and quickly repaired.
        nuancebydefault 3y ago
        The unfortunate irony in this story is that repairing stuff usually helps the environment, but in this case probably not, since older freezers consume quite a lot of energy, they were built when electricity was cheaper and using less optimized technology. That being said, I'm fully in favour of repairable phones, the energy cost is not such an issue for such low power device. I also think that todays dishwashers, washing machines, cooking plates, which are typically thrashed witin 10 years would benefit a lot from repairability if they are built to last.
        monocasa 3y ago
        It's a hard to say, but it's generally better to keep something at the consumer level running because of the cost of carbon manufacturing and shipping the product. Additionally I happen to live in an area with a very heavy use of renewables, so the carbon cost is even lower.
softfalcon 3y ago
I think you're applying a metric of well-to-do corporate workers over the needs and wants of folks who are less fortunate and don't work for a big company like you clearly did. What about poor folks just trying to keep their phone running and quite literally can't afford to buy a new phone because they live paycheck to paycheck? Or lets look at it more self-serving from your corporate perspective. Say, your company is coming under hard times. You need to find places to cut. With repairability you can opt to just replace batteries, no upgrading, save some cash across your fleet of thousands of phones. Your boss is happy and you save money to survive another day. This stuff doesn't have to only be for power users, that's just how it's marketed to you.
- kube-system 3y ago
  > I think you're applying a metric of well-to-do corporate workers over the needs and wants of folks who are less fortunate and don't work for a big company like you clearly did. And you think the less fortunate are going to buy a niche $730 phone just so they can buy a $105 screen for it later? No, they're going down to the Boost/Metro/Walmart/DG and picking up a whole new BLU, TCL or Moto G for less than $100.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - softfalcon 3y ago
    No. I don't think they're going to buy a niche phone. I'm advocating for repair-ability in general. All of my comments have been in response to the original comment I replied to, which was about AppleCare and iPhones. Also, as for poor folks. Many of them buy iPhones. They do this because appearing poor with a cheap phone from Walmart hampers your career trajectory. These folks are essentially "faking it til you make it". This isn't even wrong, it's just a fact of the way society perceives people. Unfortunately, folks look down on you if you don't own a Samsung or iPhone and wonder why you have a budget flip phone. These very people are those who would benefit from affordable phone repair. They can easily replace a battery or a screen without paying another $1000+ for an iPhone. This helps them keep up appearances while saving money. I know many, many folks like this. It's important we fight for these repair options to help all of us out.
iopq 3y ago
Back in blackberry days a new phone would support stuff that wasn't even dreamed of on the previous device. Do people not remember the original iPhone didn't have an app store? Back then things moved so fast
- kube-system 3y ago
  Points 1 and 2 still apply. People outside of forums like this don't care to fix their own phone. They don't care if you can open it with a screwdriver or not, they're not going to open it either way.
pritambaral 3y ago
> ... fleets of smartphones back in the windows mobile and blackberry days ... In a completely unrelated world, where smartphones were not prohibitively expensive but still expensive enough to be a rare purchase, people in my country repaired old phones by buying new batteries. Those used to cost only a quarter to a half of the price of a new smartphone, and street-side cellphone accessories shops used to carry both original, branded batteries and cheap, knockoff batteries. The knockoffs were only about $10-$20 cheaper, and people were smart enough to know the difference it'd make.

kibwen 3y ago

> back in the windows mobile and blackberry days Back in the day, phones were improving so fast that upgrading often was naturally incentivized. These days, the tech has plateaued and phones are a commodity. How often does the average person replace their fridge? How often does the average person replace their hot water boiler? That's how often I want to replace my phone; closer to every ten years than every two years.

kube-system 3y ago
True, and people still do not repair their own fridge when it breaks. They either call the warranty line, an appliance repair shop, or an appliance store.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  The device still has to be repairable in order for the repair shop to do it affordably, and the same is true even if you then choose to buy a new one, because an old appliance that can be repaired and resold has a higher trade in value. The lack of repairability costs you money whether you do the repairs yourself or not.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    In most of the US, I would bet that skilled labor willing and able to do the job of going to people’s homes to do appliance repairs will be expensive enough such that any ~$1,000 appliance just gets replaced. My brother in law just called his 3 year old washer’s extended warranty line, and they didn’t even want to verify the issue. Immediately told him they were sending him a check for the amount he purchased the washer for, and all that was left was for him to buy a new one. I imagine the labor itself costs $100 per hour, and including travel time, you are looking at $300 just to diagnose the issue. Then a couple hundred for the part, and if they have to wait for it, come back, that’s another $300. And you are already losing money. I imagine that is why Citibank got rid of their 4 year Costco appliance warranty.
    - monocasa 3y ago
      That's for the new stuff that isn't designed to be repaired. My circa 1990s freezer broke a couple years ago. First guy quoted us "not worth repairing". Second guy did the job for two hours of $100/hr labor and a $60 part. Told us that if it were a modern device it wouldn't have been worth it because of the labor, but the freezer was old enough that everything that can break was designed to be easily and quickly repaired.
      - nuancebydefault 3y ago
        The unfortunate irony in this story is that repairing stuff usually helps the environment, but in this case probably not, since older freezers consume quite a lot of energy, they were built when electricity was cheaper and using less optimized technology. That being said, I'm fully in favour of repairable phones, the energy cost is not such an issue for such low power device. I also think that todays dishwashers, washing machines, cooking plates, which are typically thrashed witin 10 years would benefit a lot from repairability if they are built to last.
        monocasa 3y ago
        It's a hard to say, but it's generally better to keep something at the consumer level running because of the cost of carbon manufacturing and shipping the product. Additionally I happen to live in an area with a very heavy use of renewables, so the carbon cost is even lower.

softfalcon 3y ago

I think you're applying a metric of well-to-do corporate workers over the needs and wants of folks who are less fortunate and don't work for a big company like you clearly did. What about poor folks just trying to keep their phone running and quite literally can't afford to buy a new phone because they live paycheck to paycheck? Or lets look at it more self-serving from your corporate perspective. Say, your company is coming under hard times. You need to find places to cut. With repairability you can opt to just replace batteries, no upgrading, save some cash across your fleet of thousands of phones. Your boss is happy and you save money to survive another day. This stuff doesn't have to only be for power users, that's just how it's marketed to you.

kube-system 3y ago
> I think you're applying a metric of well-to-do corporate workers over the needs and wants of folks who are less fortunate and don't work for a big company like you clearly did. And you think the less fortunate are going to buy a niche $730 phone just so they can buy a $105 screen for it later? No, they're going down to the Boost/Metro/Walmart/DG and picking up a whole new BLU, TCL or Moto G for less than $100.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- softfalcon 3y ago
  No. I don't think they're going to buy a niche phone. I'm advocating for repair-ability in general. All of my comments have been in response to the original comment I replied to, which was about AppleCare and iPhones. Also, as for poor folks. Many of them buy iPhones. They do this because appearing poor with a cheap phone from Walmart hampers your career trajectory. These folks are essentially "faking it til you make it". This isn't even wrong, it's just a fact of the way society perceives people. Unfortunately, folks look down on you if you don't own a Samsung or iPhone and wonder why you have a budget flip phone. These very people are those who would benefit from affordable phone repair. They can easily replace a battery or a screen without paying another $1000+ for an iPhone. This helps them keep up appearances while saving money. I know many, many folks like this. It's important we fight for these repair options to help all of us out.

iopq 3y ago

Back in blackberry days a new phone would support stuff that wasn't even dreamed of on the previous device. Do people not remember the original iPhone didn't have an app store? Back then things moved so fast

kube-system 3y ago
Points 1 and 2 still apply. People outside of forums like this don't care to fix their own phone. They don't care if you can open it with a screwdriver or not, they're not going to open it either way.

pritambaral 3y ago

> ... fleets of smartphones back in the windows mobile and blackberry days ... In a completely unrelated world, where smartphones were not prohibitively expensive but still expensive enough to be a rare purchase, people in my country repaired old phones by buying new batteries. Those used to cost only a quarter to a half of the price of a new smartphone, and street-side cellphone accessories shops used to carry both original, branded batteries and cheap, knockoff batteries. The knockoffs were only about $10-$20 cheaper, and people were smart enough to know the difference it'd make.