5 ms·

I've been trying to think this through a bit. The way I understand it is: There are two cars waiting to go through an intersection. The Cruise and the Human-D

I've been trying to think this through a bit. The way I understand it is: There are two cars waiting to go through an intersection. The Cruise and the Human-Driven car. The light turns green, and the Cruise's pathway through the intersection is clear. A pedestrian is crossing the intersection in the path of the human-driven car, but not in the path of the Cruise. Both cars enter the intersection, the human-driven car strikes the pedestrian, who then rolls off the human-driven car into the path of the Cruise, and is run-over the Cruise. Of course, I haven't seen the accident, but if that's broadly correct, I'm not sure that this is the damning evidence of "driverless cars are unsafe" some people seem to be spinning it up to be. It is a tragedy, but it seems to be a tragedy caused primarily by a human driver who struck a pedestrian, and a human pedestrian who ignored a traffic signal. Should the bar for driverless cars be "able to predict when other vehicles will hit a pedestrian and roll that person in their path"? Would a human-driven vhicle have done any better? If the places were reversed, would the Cruise have struck the pedestrian in the first place? I think we're all right to be skeptical of machine-driven cars, but I'm not certain that this specific incident is a point against them.

justin66 3y ago
> Should the bar for driverless cars be "able to predict when other vehicles will hit a pedestrian and roll that person in their path"? JFC. How about "do not enter an intersection where pedestrians are present?"
- vel0city 3y ago
  Depending on the geometry of the scene its entirely possible the pedestrian was not visible to the self driving car until after they were struck by the first car.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  > JFC. How about "do not enter an intersection where pedestrians are present?" So no entering intersections at all in major cities during rush hour?
tzs 3y ago
> Should the bar for driverless cars be "able to predict when other vehicles will hit a pedestrian and roll that person in their path"? No, but in the case of pedestrians crossing the street it may be reasonable to expect a driverless car to avoid getting into a situation where that can happen. This will depend on details of traffic laws where it is operating. What are the clearance rules in California for staying clear of pedestrians crossing the street? Here in Washington it is that if they are in your half of the street or within one lane of your half you have to wait. For purposes of this rule your half of the street is all lanes moving in your direction. No Washington driver should be going until either the pedestrian finishes crossing or there is at least one lane between the lanes in the car's direction and the lane the pedestrian is in. If a human driver here goes early and hits the pedestrian and the pedestrian ends up in an adjacent lane they should still be safe from other cars that did not go early.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  In California, aside from pedestrians in a crosswalk having right of way, a driver approaching a crosswalk with a pedestrian: > ... shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian. In addition, all of the rules for pedestrians (no jaywalking, don't dash off the curb in front of a car, even in a crosswalk) include a provision that state they do not "relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within the [roadway or crosswalk]"
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    > ... shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian. This is great in principle but in practice cars will just drive straight at you even when you are crossing on a walk signal. Coming from a country where the walk signal means only pedestrians can be in the crosswalk this almost got me killed the other night. I was hoping self driving cars would help things but it seems they drive straight for you too.
lamontcg 3y ago
Could the Cruise vehicle even "see" the pedestrian in this case before they'd already been struck by the other vehicle and thrown into the path of the Cruise?

justin66 3y ago

> Should the bar for driverless cars be "able to predict when other vehicles will hit a pedestrian and roll that person in their path"? JFC. How about "do not enter an intersection where pedestrians are present?"

vel0city 3y ago
Depending on the geometry of the scene its entirely possible the pedestrian was not visible to the self driving car until after they were struck by the first car.
aidenn0 3y ago
> JFC. How about "do not enter an intersection where pedestrians are present?" So no entering intersections at all in major cities during rush hour?

tzs 3y ago

> Should the bar for driverless cars be "able to predict when other vehicles will hit a pedestrian and roll that person in their path"? No, but in the case of pedestrians crossing the street it may be reasonable to expect a driverless car to avoid getting into a situation where that can happen. This will depend on details of traffic laws where it is operating. What are the clearance rules in California for staying clear of pedestrians crossing the street? Here in Washington it is that if they are in your half of the street or within one lane of your half you have to wait. For purposes of this rule your half of the street is all lanes moving in your direction. No Washington driver should be going until either the pedestrian finishes crossing or there is at least one lane between the lanes in the car's direction and the lane the pedestrian is in. If a human driver here goes early and hits the pedestrian and the pedestrian ends up in an adjacent lane they should still be safe from other cars that did not go early.

aidenn0 3y ago
In California, aside from pedestrians in a crosswalk having right of way, a driver approaching a crosswalk with a pedestrian: > ... shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian. In addition, all of the rules for pedestrians (no jaywalking, don't dash off the curb in front of a car, even in a crosswalk) include a provision that state they do not "relieve a driver of a vehicle from the duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrian within the [roadway or crosswalk]"
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  > ... shall exercise all due care and shall reduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating to the operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety of the pedestrian. This is great in principle but in practice cars will just drive straight at you even when you are crossing on a walk signal. Coming from a country where the walk signal means only pedestrians can be in the crosswalk this almost got me killed the other night. I was hoping self driving cars would help things but it seems they drive straight for you too.

lamontcg 3y ago

Could the Cruise vehicle even "see" the pedestrian in this case before they'd already been struck by the other vehicle and thrown into the path of the Cruise?