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One thing that the financial press is looking at is where the courts draw the line between incompetence and outright fraud. Everyone agrees that FTX funneled m
by chollida1 3y ago
One thing that the financial press is looking at is where the courts draw the line between incompetence and outright fraud.
Everyone agrees that FTX funneled money from FTX customers accounts to Alemada. The government is claiming this is fraud, SBF is claiming it was just allowing Alemeda to have more leverage than other clients.
Everyone agrees that FTX gave SBF's parents $30M in real estate. The government is claiming this was fraud, SBF is claiming that it was just payment for work done by his parents for FTX.
Everyone agrees that a large part of Alemeda's balance sheet were coins that only had value because they held almost all of them and only they transacted in them, thereby allowing them to keep the price high. The government claims this is accounting fraud and SBF claims this was just a bad marking of their price.
Everyone agrees that FTX bought around $100 million in Bahamian realestate. The government says this was stealing from FTX's customers, while SBF is claiming this was just to house FTX employees.
Everyone agrees that FTX paid $100's of millions to celebrity endorsers and arena naming deals. The government claims the source of these funds were customers money. SBF claims that both FTX's own cash and customers funds were just one big pool that he just didn't have enough accounting and risk management rules enforced on that large pool of resources to know that FTX ran out of money and he was using customers funds to buy things.
I'm not an expert in case law but one thing that stand out to me is just how many of SBF's "friends" and partners have fully turned on him and will testify against him. Caroline Ellison, the CEO of Alameda, Gary Wang, the CTO of FTX and Nishad Singh, FTX' engineering director have all signed cooperation agreements.
Also rumours are that SBF will testify, which short of Trump testifying , seems like the worst possible person to take the stand.
The winners in this will be the bankruptcy lawyers and people who had cash on had to buy FTX customer claims for 20-30% on the dollar. I think funds that had the forsight to buy these claims and create a side car for their investment will do very well.
The yield on this trade though will be determined mostly by the recovery rate and probably more so by the time it takes the lawyers to pay out claims as I've never met a bankruptcy lawyer who was in a hurry to part with the cash and lucrative billing rates they make.
One other thing i'm watching but not related to the trials is how far back FTX's bankruptcy lawyers go after people who withdrew money from FTX.
With Maddoff the bankruptcy lawyers went after anyone who took money out going back many years. Supposedly there were a few larger hedge funds who took money out of FTX weeks before it went under and stopped withdrawls. There is plenty of precedence for the trustees to go after those funds to ask for the withdrawls back.
- saghm 3y agoEven if it all just was extraordinary incompetence, it doesn't seem like it would set a good precedent for that to be a successful defense. If this works, it seems like we'd see a lot more places purposely accounting for things poorly because there's a precedent that they can get away with it by saying they didn't know any better...
- taeric 3y agoAs soon as you add "purposely" to the mix, you clearly moved over into fraud... I think you are ultimately correct that extraordinary incompetence would still be some crime. Question does seem legitimate that it isn't necessarily fraud?
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoManslaughter is not murder, but it's still a crime. Executives are often held to the "knew or should have known" standard. So, yes, in his position, extraordinary incompetence is still a crime.
- saghm 3y agoMy point is that if accidental incompetence is allowed but purposeful incompetence isn't, it becomes makes it a goal to try to seem genuinely incompetent, which seems like a bad thing
- taeric 3y agoI can kind of see the hazard, if I squint. But that would still be a crime, in a lot of cases. And if you look incompetent, there are serious questions to ask on why you are getting backing. Consider, if a bus system lets a genuinely incompetent driver on the street, there are all sorts of fines they will face. Rightfully so. Same for a hospital that has a genuinely incompetent doctor. Now, if you are incompetent at things that are not your core competency, things are different. But, in general, incompetency at the level we are looking at here should raise as many questions on why so many others ignored red flags.