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Except that hitting "Pay Inside" probably activates the "get high res photos" function because that's a known fraud profile. If the pump is tricked into giving

by mikece 3y ago

Except that hitting "Pay Inside" probably activates the "get high res photos" function because that's a known fraud profile. If the pump is tricked into giving gasoline for free how long does it take for the gas station employee(s) to notice something went wrong?

Retric 3y ago
Yea it’s less automated but this bit: “when the clerks inside try to stop it - they can’t.” suggests it’s very obvious.
jjkaczor 3y ago
Interesting - in Canada, if you want to "Pay Inside", you have to go in and actually pay - they authorize the maximum transaction, and it unlocks the pump and sets it to a maximum amount. If you pump less than that amount, you pay only for what you use. But, OTOH - Canada seems a bit ahead of the US when it comes to Interac/debit-card transactions in general (... but also a little "behind" Europe and AU/NZ...)
- mikece 3y ago
  A lot of places in the US are either pay by credit card at the pump or pre-pay inside only. I've also seen where "pay inside after" only works if you leave your driver's license with the attendant inside before the pump is activated.
  - throwbadubadu 3y ago
    Huh, interesting.. the usual default in most of Europe is pump then pay, with nothing required beforehand, they have your license plate on video anyway?
    - salad-tycoon 3y ago
      It used to be like this in the US too. Now we have “upgraded customer interactive digital displays” that stream ads, TikTok, “cheddar news” , and propaganda into your brain while you pump and I haven’t seen a pump then pay in some years.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        You can't buy a toothbrush without calling a attendant where I live, no way they let you pump $100 of gas without paying first. Pay after was the norm when I was a kid though.
      - opello 3y ago
        I recently learned that you can mute some of these! I've had success with the top right or second from the top on the right button near the screen. No reason not to try them all if you're a captive audience anyway...
        fuzzzerd 3y ago
        I spam all the buttons on any pump to attempt to mute it, and like you have had success with top right, or second from top on the right having the highest success. In my area, I'm only about 1/4 in being able to mute it, but when it works, usually top right.
        olyjohn 3y ago
        I wonder if I could just get a powerful electromagnet and use it to rip the coil out of the speaker. Would be a benefit to society.
      - registeredcorn 3y ago
        Side note: If you're at a pump with those stupid TV things, try and hit...right side, second button from the top. This usually activates mute. Some people go to the effort of putting little stickers indicating where the mute button is. Other times you can tell which one it is if the button is heavily scuffed. If that button doesn't work, just try pressing each of the other ones on there. In my own experience, it doesn't hurt to try. I think one time the left side, bottom button worked too. Whatever the case, I find those infernal things to not only be obnoxious, but a potential safety risk. I mean, you have a customer literally in the process of handling large quantities of dangerous, liquid flammable material which emits fumes that can be ignited by a spark, with potentially inadequate controls in place to stop it killing people. So, let's distract them with shrill, unwanted blather-boxes showing distracting imagery. I make a point of trying to avoid gas stations that have those stupid things installed precisely for that reason - I don't trust that location to put my safety above them making $.0002 from some shady ad network. I just can't stand that there is such a concerted effort for this war on silence. Just give me a few minutes of simple contemplation.
    - soco 3y ago
      Unattended/night stations still work like this: you pre-authorize your card then pump to get charged.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    Most rural areas away from interstate highways can still pay after you've pumped, without needing to leave your license or anything else.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  >in Canada, if you want to "Pay Inside", you have to go in and actually pay - they authorize the maximum transaction, and it unlocks the pump and sets it to a maximum amount. I'm in a good-sized city, and every gas station I've been to lets you pay inside after filling up. The only ones that require pre-pay (either by going inside as you described, paying for a max amount, or by CC) are the farthest pumps away from the store.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - pizzaknife 3y ago
    this is insane to me. I have not been to a single station in the continental united states in the last 7 years where "pay inside" does not equate to "pay first" That being said - perhaps its an "attendant" state? Several states have laws which restrict motorists from pumping their own gas, is this the scenario which you are talking to? edit: grammar
    - ziddoap 3y ago
      I'm in Canada, not the US. But no, no attendant. You fill up for $X, then walk into the store and say "I filled up on pump 3", then you pay.
      - pizzaknife 3y ago
        thank you! This pattern essentially disappeared from the US with the exception of perhaps the very smallest and remote locations (public accessible) seemingly since the late 1990s (I do remember this pattern as you have described, just not in the last 20years)
    - matsemann 3y ago
      Laws saying you can't pump your own gas? Having to prepay inside? Wow, I'm flabbergasted, and it's a bit funny you're thinking it's insane the other way around. I guess it's what you're used to. When tanking before paying, I also used to get into the car and move it so that someone else could fill while I was inside(it would start a new transaction when you put the nossle back), probably to you look like a dash from the bill. Then walk inside saying "hundred and fifty something on pump 3 is mine". But I haven't seen a pump not accepting card in what, 20 years, here? So haven't used anything else for ages (and now got an electric car anyways)
- complianceowl 3y ago
  This comment is kind of confusing; maybe others have had a different experience, but I live in the Midwest and what you're speaking of has been the norm for like the last decade. I've been driving for 13+ years and don't have any memories of being able to pump gas without first paying at the pump, or paying inside and my pump automatically stopping at the amount I paid for.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    I starting driving in 1990 - back then there was no pay at the pump so the norm everywhere was to pump gas then go inside and wait in line to pay. You knew you were in a bad neighborhood if you had to pay for your gas before you pumped it (you probably already knew you were in a bad neighborhood, but this confirmed it). About 15 years ago stations started to realize that nearly everyone was paying at the pump even if they were going to come inside for something else - which made it much more likely anyone not paying at the pump was trying to steel gasoline and so they went to pay first as few were inconvenienced. I do not miss at all standing in line behind someone who couldn't figure out which lottery ticket they wanted to buy.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  As an American living in Canada: that’s exactly how it works on both sides of the border.
- cactusplant7374 3y ago
  It’s more efficient to pay after you’ve completely filled your tank. I guess there is a trust issue, which is why it isn’t common in the US anymore.
  - salawat 3y ago
    Nope! It's actually because there's a financial standard transaction flow for things like pumps! -Confirm account: super small test move to confirm liveness of endpoint -Place hold: (locks $⁷5 worth of funds attached to an account) Finalize transaction -Finalize transaction for final amount -Release hold This is actually a really troublesome thing for people who have trouble keeping their account balances positive, because you can end up locking them out of further financial activity until the hold is expired/released. It's one of those things you don't really think about but are all over the place, and are a big part of making the world turn the way it does.
    - sethhochberg 3y ago
      Similar problem for people this close to the financial edge: saying "I want exactly $23.46 worth of gas" because thats all the cash they have, a penny more wouldn't fly. Much easier and safer to ask the attendant to preload the pump with that amount and run it down to zero than to try and get as close as you can with the trigger without going over.
- ajford 3y ago
  That was normal in Texas ~15-20yrs ago. But in the intervening time, I've seen that become less common. I've run into places that won't let you pay after and will instead just ask you to prepay (full transaction) and come back in to get the difference refunded. But I've also ran into plenty of places that if you hit "pay inside" on the pump will simply just turn the pump on, or will call you via the pump intercom (is that common everywhere?) and tell you they're turning the pump on for a max of XX gallons and to prepay or use the card at the pump if that's not enough.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    The pump intercom is done because then you know someone inside actually saw you and is expecting you. If you drive off without paying they are much more likely to notice and call the police in time for the police to catch you. Or at least that is what they want you to think.
    - ajford 3y ago
      Yeah, I figured the intercom call was to get you thinking that they're watching closely, even though they're usually too busy with other customers to really be watching someone on the chance they drive off.
londons_explore 3y ago
Presumably they find out within a week when they reorder gas and the filling truck has to fill substantially more than expected. They probably start investigating for a fuel leak, pull the data from all the pumps, and then realise the number of gallons pumped and the number of gallons paid for don't match up, and then check the CCTV.
- djtango 3y ago
  Depends really. Most businesses will assume some amount of shrinkage. If you fly beneath the radar eg only hit the station once a month or every other month. You might get away with it.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    Completely agree. Also, volume is huge. If a gas station averages 1 car at all times across a month, you’re talking 400,000+ gal. Even just 1 hour of pumping each day is 18,000 gal. Are they really going to bother if one person swipes 20 gal a month?
    - brookst 3y ago
      Not to mention the margin of error. Do fuel delivery quantities really exactly align with sold gas, to within a gallon or so? Or is there natural variation from each transaction being +/- $0.01, plus evaporation, plus any other rounding/physics considerations?
  - jareklupinski 3y ago
    > Most businesses will assume some amount of shrinkage in the gas trade, they use the term "evaporation" ;P
jacquesm 3y ago
Here in NL it's 'pay inside' or 'pump then pay' by default unless you're in a border region where there are a lot of scammers. And judging by some recent foreign trips pretty much the same happens in other countries in the North of Europe.

by mikece 3y ago

Retric 3y ago

Yea it’s less automated but this bit: “when the clerks inside try to stop it - they can’t.” suggests it’s very obvious.

jjkaczor 3y ago

Interesting - in Canada, if you want to "Pay Inside", you have to go in and actually pay - they authorize the maximum transaction, and it unlocks the pump and sets it to a maximum amount. If you pump less than that amount, you pay only for what you use. But, OTOH - Canada seems a bit ahead of the US when it comes to Interac/debit-card transactions in general (... but also a little "behind" Europe and AU/NZ...)

mikece 3y ago
A lot of places in the US are either pay by credit card at the pump or pre-pay inside only. I've also seen where "pay inside after" only works if you leave your driver's license with the attendant inside before the pump is activated.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  Huh, interesting.. the usual default in most of Europe is pump then pay, with nothing required beforehand, they have your license plate on video anyway?
  - salad-tycoon 3y ago
    It used to be like this in the US too. Now we have “upgraded customer interactive digital displays” that stream ads, TikTok, “cheddar news” , and propaganda into your brain while you pump and I haven’t seen a pump then pay in some years.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      You can't buy a toothbrush without calling a attendant where I live, no way they let you pump $100 of gas without paying first. Pay after was the norm when I was a kid though.
    - opello 3y ago
      I recently learned that you can mute some of these! I've had success with the top right or second from the top on the right button near the screen. No reason not to try them all if you're a captive audience anyway...
      - fuzzzerd 3y ago
        I spam all the buttons on any pump to attempt to mute it, and like you have had success with top right, or second from top on the right having the highest success. In my area, I'm only about 1/4 in being able to mute it, but when it works, usually top right.
        olyjohn 3y ago
        I wonder if I could just get a powerful electromagnet and use it to rip the coil out of the speaker. Would be a benefit to society.
    - registeredcorn 3y ago
      Side note: If you're at a pump with those stupid TV things, try and hit...right side, second button from the top. This usually activates mute. Some people go to the effort of putting little stickers indicating where the mute button is. Other times you can tell which one it is if the button is heavily scuffed. If that button doesn't work, just try pressing each of the other ones on there. In my own experience, it doesn't hurt to try. I think one time the left side, bottom button worked too. Whatever the case, I find those infernal things to not only be obnoxious, but a potential safety risk. I mean, you have a customer literally in the process of handling large quantities of dangerous, liquid flammable material which emits fumes that can be ignited by a spark, with potentially inadequate controls in place to stop it killing people. So, let's distract them with shrill, unwanted blather-boxes showing distracting imagery. I make a point of trying to avoid gas stations that have those stupid things installed precisely for that reason - I don't trust that location to put my safety above them making $.0002 from some shady ad network. I just can't stand that there is such a concerted effort for this war on silence. Just give me a few minutes of simple contemplation.
  - soco 3y ago
    Unattended/night stations still work like this: you pre-authorize your card then pump to get charged.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Most rural areas away from interstate highways can still pay after you've pumped, without needing to leave your license or anything else.
ziddoap 3y ago
>in Canada, if you want to "Pay Inside", you have to go in and actually pay - they authorize the maximum transaction, and it unlocks the pump and sets it to a maximum amount. I'm in a good-sized city, and every gas station I've been to lets you pay inside after filling up. The only ones that require pre-pay (either by going inside as you described, paying for a max amount, or by CC) are the farthest pumps away from the store.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pizzaknife 3y ago
  this is insane to me. I have not been to a single station in the continental united states in the last 7 years where "pay inside" does not equate to "pay first" That being said - perhaps its an "attendant" state? Several states have laws which restrict motorists from pumping their own gas, is this the scenario which you are talking to? edit: grammar
  - ziddoap 3y ago
    I'm in Canada, not the US. But no, no attendant. You fill up for $X, then walk into the store and say "I filled up on pump 3", then you pay.
    - pizzaknife 3y ago
      thank you! This pattern essentially disappeared from the US with the exception of perhaps the very smallest and remote locations (public accessible) seemingly since the late 1990s (I do remember this pattern as you have described, just not in the last 20years)
  - matsemann 3y ago
    Laws saying you can't pump your own gas? Having to prepay inside? Wow, I'm flabbergasted, and it's a bit funny you're thinking it's insane the other way around. I guess it's what you're used to. When tanking before paying, I also used to get into the car and move it so that someone else could fill while I was inside(it would start a new transaction when you put the nossle back), probably to you look like a dash from the bill. Then walk inside saying "hundred and fifty something on pump 3 is mine". But I haven't seen a pump not accepting card in what, 20 years, here? So haven't used anything else for ages (and now got an electric car anyways)
complianceowl 3y ago
This comment is kind of confusing; maybe others have had a different experience, but I live in the Midwest and what you're speaking of has been the norm for like the last decade. I've been driving for 13+ years and don't have any memories of being able to pump gas without first paying at the pump, or paying inside and my pump automatically stopping at the amount I paid for.
- bluGill 3y ago
  I starting driving in 1990 - back then there was no pay at the pump so the norm everywhere was to pump gas then go inside and wait in line to pay. You knew you were in a bad neighborhood if you had to pay for your gas before you pumped it (you probably already knew you were in a bad neighborhood, but this confirmed it). About 15 years ago stations started to realize that nearly everyone was paying at the pump even if they were going to come inside for something else - which made it much more likely anyone not paying at the pump was trying to steel gasoline and so they went to pay first as few were inconvenienced. I do not miss at all standing in line behind someone who couldn't figure out which lottery ticket they wanted to buy.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
As an American living in Canada: that’s exactly how it works on both sides of the border.
cactusplant7374 3y ago
It’s more efficient to pay after you’ve completely filled your tank. I guess there is a trust issue, which is why it isn’t common in the US anymore.
- salawat 3y ago
  Nope! It's actually because there's a financial standard transaction flow for things like pumps! -Confirm account: super small test move to confirm liveness of endpoint -Place hold: (locks $⁷5 worth of funds attached to an account) Finalize transaction -Finalize transaction for final amount -Release hold This is actually a really troublesome thing for people who have trouble keeping their account balances positive, because you can end up locking them out of further financial activity until the hold is expired/released. It's one of those things you don't really think about but are all over the place, and are a big part of making the world turn the way it does.
  - sethhochberg 3y ago
    Similar problem for people this close to the financial edge: saying "I want exactly $23.46 worth of gas" because thats all the cash they have, a penny more wouldn't fly. Much easier and safer to ask the attendant to preload the pump with that amount and run it down to zero than to try and get as close as you can with the trigger without going over.
ajford 3y ago
That was normal in Texas ~15-20yrs ago. But in the intervening time, I've seen that become less common. I've run into places that won't let you pay after and will instead just ask you to prepay (full transaction) and come back in to get the difference refunded. But I've also ran into plenty of places that if you hit "pay inside" on the pump will simply just turn the pump on, or will call you via the pump intercom (is that common everywhere?) and tell you they're turning the pump on for a max of XX gallons and to prepay or use the card at the pump if that's not enough.
- bluGill 3y ago
  The pump intercom is done because then you know someone inside actually saw you and is expecting you. If you drive off without paying they are much more likely to notice and call the police in time for the police to catch you. Or at least that is what they want you to think.
  - ajford 3y ago
    Yeah, I figured the intercom call was to get you thinking that they're watching closely, even though they're usually too busy with other customers to really be watching someone on the chance they drive off.

londons_explore 3y ago

Presumably they find out within a week when they reorder gas and the filling truck has to fill substantially more than expected. They probably start investigating for a fuel leak, pull the data from all the pumps, and then realise the number of gallons pumped and the number of gallons paid for don't match up, and then check the CCTV.

djtango 3y ago
Depends really. Most businesses will assume some amount of shrinkage. If you fly beneath the radar eg only hit the station once a month or every other month. You might get away with it.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  Completely agree. Also, volume is huge. If a gas station averages 1 car at all times across a month, you’re talking 400,000+ gal. Even just 1 hour of pumping each day is 18,000 gal. Are they really going to bother if one person swipes 20 gal a month?
  - brookst 3y ago
    Not to mention the margin of error. Do fuel delivery quantities really exactly align with sold gas, to within a gallon or so? Or is there natural variation from each transaction being +/- $0.01, plus evaporation, plus any other rounding/physics considerations?
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  > Most businesses will assume some amount of shrinkage in the gas trade, they use the term "evaporation" ;P

jacquesm 3y ago

Here in NL it's 'pay inside' or 'pump then pay' by default unless you're in a border region where there are a lot of scammers. And judging by some recent foreign trips pretty much the same happens in other countries in the North of Europe.