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HubSpot startup program is weird. We saw it advertised as 90% off on a startup platform we're part of, applied, and we were told since we're a bootstrapped bus

HubSpot startup program is weird. We saw it advertised as 90% off on a startup platform we're part of, applied, and we were told since we're a bootstrapped business and haven't raised any money, we can only get 30% off. It left a sour taste in my mouth. If you're bootstrapping a business counting every penny of your own money, you're at disadvantage, but if you raised $2 million, we're happy to save some of your VC money! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mattficke 3y ago
I suppose it makes sense if you consider that the purpose of these programs is to acquire customers that will potentially scale dramatically in size (and usage of the platform) in upcoming years. Bootstrapped businesses may not look to them like the future cash cows they’re seeking. It’s unfortunate.
_fat_santa 3y ago
Same story with AWS. If you got VC money they give you up to $100k in credits, if you're bootstrapped they give you only around $1k
- techdragon 3y ago
  I always found this one rather insulting. It basically means VC money is a get out of jail free card for a lot of early potential mistakes and miscalculations you can make while working out how much it will cost you to build your business on the back of AWS and how that affects your own pricing model… and the 100x ratio is just rubbing phosphorus into the wound and what elevates this to just insulting to me, it’s one thing to have a 50% or 100% difference in the amount of discount you get (like the already stated example where the VC funds mean you get 90% off, and the bootstrapped customer gets only 30%, that’s a 200% greater discount) With the 100x on the free AWS credits that’s the equivalent of 10000% discount to the VC funded customer… and when I know that bullshit half baked ideas by people with good networking connections in California are getting a discount like that while I’m working hard to build some sort of legitimate business with my own money… it just feels like Amazon saying “fuck you we don’t want your real business we just want these idiots with their fake business”… it’s not a good vibe to give off.
  - giantandroids 3y ago
    At a guess I expect its because the VC has vetted the business model and saves amazon from doing the same. e.g. if accel, a16z etc have stumped up seed money or an A-round it means the company would have a tested model, or at least one sufficient for them to throw serious amounts of money at. This saves amazon from having to do the same and allocate resources to vet the founders and startup themselves.
    - L4zzy_0tt3r 3y ago
      yeah vetting is big part of it. Like imagine the amount of applications they get from all over the world. This kind of things changes as the cloud providers get bigger and bigger too. If you use say Oracle now they kind of want to hear from earlier stage startups.
- tedivm 3y ago
  AWS will give you the extra money if you're bootstrapped, you just have to put a bit more effort into it.
Nextgrid 3y ago
The whole VC startup/tech bubble needs external money to go into the system. They aren't very interested in taking VC-funded companies money because it will be like taking something out of your right pocket and putting it into the left one - it doesn't do anything to prevent the bubble from popping. External money (from outside the bubble) however is very important since it's the only thing that will stave off the eventual cascading failure of the industry as all these unsustainable companies (who mostly just pass their VC money back & forth) start falling like dominoes.
- matsemann 3y ago
  Heh, was kinda thinking the same, it's a circle of money. "Look at our hockeystick! We got customers equivalent to a million MRR!" "Equivalent? How much are they actually paying?" "...nothing, they're all in our VC batch. But hey, we also get service X for free in return!"
- hcks 3y ago
  There is no conspiracy here. It makes a lot of sense to offer a service for free (as a customer acquisition tactic) to a VC funded company because the 2 options are either they go bankrupt or they can be charged 100 times more revenue in 2 years. On the other hand what is the point of subsidising a bootstrapped business potentially forever?
  - HatchedLake721 3y ago
    https://www.hubspot.com/startups https://www.hubspot.com/startups 90% off year 1 50% off year 2 25% off ongoing HubSpot charges ~$1,200 p/m for their professional Marketing & Sales plans. I assume 25% off almost $15k annual with pretty much zero CAC is not far off from what HubSpot sales would offer themselves to a multi-year deal.
  - IKantRead 3y ago
    Do you have any data to back that up claim? My experience with bootstrapped companies is that they are just as subject to pressure to grow as startups, and probably have a higher success rate. Atlassian, Github, Mailchimp and Shopify are all companies that initially started as bootstrapped companies and, in my mind, stand out as some of the most sustainably successful startups of recent history.
icedchai 3y ago
If you had told them you raised X mil, would they verify it?
- hiatus 3y ago
  Are you really going to commit fraud for AWS credits? Lying for a monetary gain does not seem like the start of a good partnership.
  - icedchai 3y ago
    I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just wondering what their process is.
tedivm 3y ago
Datadog did something similar to me at a previous company- they were miserable. We tried to use their credits from the AWS program, but then they kept adding more and more requirements to the program. They eventually wanted to go full MLM, telling us that if we want the credits we have to setup meetings with other startups we work with and that at least three (I believe) of the startups had to turn into customers. It was absolutely ridiculous. I went from being eager to use their product to vowing never to recommend it again. They were just so condescending during the entire process too.

mattficke 3y ago

I suppose it makes sense if you consider that the purpose of these programs is to acquire customers that will potentially scale dramatically in size (and usage of the platform) in upcoming years. Bootstrapped businesses may not look to them like the future cash cows they’re seeking. It’s unfortunate.

_fat_santa 3y ago

Same story with AWS. If you got VC money they give you up to $100k in credits, if you're bootstrapped they give you only around $1k

techdragon 3y ago
I always found this one rather insulting. It basically means VC money is a get out of jail free card for a lot of early potential mistakes and miscalculations you can make while working out how much it will cost you to build your business on the back of AWS and how that affects your own pricing model… and the 100x ratio is just rubbing phosphorus into the wound and what elevates this to just insulting to me, it’s one thing to have a 50% or 100% difference in the amount of discount you get (like the already stated example where the VC funds mean you get 90% off, and the bootstrapped customer gets only 30%, that’s a 200% greater discount) With the 100x on the free AWS credits that’s the equivalent of 10000% discount to the VC funded customer… and when I know that bullshit half baked ideas by people with good networking connections in California are getting a discount like that while I’m working hard to build some sort of legitimate business with my own money… it just feels like Amazon saying “fuck you we don’t want your real business we just want these idiots with their fake business”… it’s not a good vibe to give off.
- giantandroids 3y ago
  At a guess I expect its because the VC has vetted the business model and saves amazon from doing the same. e.g. if accel, a16z etc have stumped up seed money or an A-round it means the company would have a tested model, or at least one sufficient for them to throw serious amounts of money at. This saves amazon from having to do the same and allocate resources to vet the founders and startup themselves.
  - L4zzy_0tt3r 3y ago
    yeah vetting is big part of it. Like imagine the amount of applications they get from all over the world. This kind of things changes as the cloud providers get bigger and bigger too. If you use say Oracle now they kind of want to hear from earlier stage startups.
tedivm 3y ago
AWS will give you the extra money if you're bootstrapped, you just have to put a bit more effort into it.

Nextgrid 3y ago

The whole VC startup/tech bubble needs external money to go into the system. They aren't very interested in taking VC-funded companies money because it will be like taking something out of your right pocket and putting it into the left one - it doesn't do anything to prevent the bubble from popping. External money (from outside the bubble) however is very important since it's the only thing that will stave off the eventual cascading failure of the industry as all these unsustainable companies (who mostly just pass their VC money back & forth) start falling like dominoes.

matsemann 3y ago
Heh, was kinda thinking the same, it's a circle of money. "Look at our hockeystick! We got customers equivalent to a million MRR!" "Equivalent? How much are they actually paying?" "...nothing, they're all in our VC batch. But hey, we also get service X for free in return!"
hcks 3y ago
There is no conspiracy here. It makes a lot of sense to offer a service for free (as a customer acquisition tactic) to a VC funded company because the 2 options are either they go bankrupt or they can be charged 100 times more revenue in 2 years. On the other hand what is the point of subsidising a bootstrapped business potentially forever?
- HatchedLake721 3y ago
  https://www.hubspot.com/startups https://www.hubspot.com/startups 90% off year 1 50% off year 2 25% off ongoing HubSpot charges ~$1,200 p/m for their professional Marketing & Sales plans. I assume 25% off almost $15k annual with pretty much zero CAC is not far off from what HubSpot sales would offer themselves to a multi-year deal.
- IKantRead 3y ago
  Do you have any data to back that up claim? My experience with bootstrapped companies is that they are just as subject to pressure to grow as startups, and probably have a higher success rate. Atlassian, Github, Mailchimp and Shopify are all companies that initially started as bootstrapped companies and, in my mind, stand out as some of the most sustainably successful startups of recent history.

icedchai 3y ago

If you had told them you raised X mil, would they verify it?

hiatus 3y ago
Are you really going to commit fraud for AWS credits? Lying for a monetary gain does not seem like the start of a good partnership.
- icedchai 3y ago
  I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm just wondering what their process is.

tedivm 3y ago

Datadog did something similar to me at a previous company- they were miserable. We tried to use their credits from the AWS program, but then they kept adding more and more requirements to the program. They eventually wanted to go full MLM, telling us that if we want the credits we have to setup meetings with other startups we work with and that at least three (I believe) of the startups had to turn into customers. It was absolutely ridiculous. I went from being eager to use their product to vowing never to recommend it again. They were just so condescending during the entire process too.