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By the definition you give then people who claim benefits and do not work are not "working class". It is delusional to think our jobs are on the same level as

By the definition you give then people who claim benefits and do not work are not "working class". It is delusional to think our jobs are on the same level as someone who grafts all day with their hands and does back breaking work for minimum wage.

rwmj 3y ago
Not everyone who is working class is on minimum wage. Train drivers or boiler engineers or site foremen? All paid very well, in the UK as much or even more than tech workers.
- guntherhermann 3y ago
  I come from a working class background so I'm very aware of all of this. However my family (extended+) have all had poorly paying jobs, coal miners, nurses, pallet makers, warehouse, electricians, labourers, bakers. I'm the first to go to uni and do an easy job that pays well. It is physically easy and it is very different from the other jobs I've listed. Our jobs aren't working class. Edit: by the by, boiler engineers are not paid well. A self-employed plumber with a gas cert can earn a good wage, but your average british gas tradie isn't bringing home half of what I earn
dragonwriter 3y ago
> By the definition you give then people who claim benefits and do not work are not “working class”. Yes, people who do not rely on overwhelmingly on selling labor for their support are not working class (people who are working class might transitionally be on support without working, or might be on support while working, depending on the benefit structure, but if their principal source of support over an extended time is not selling labor, then they aren’t, as a matter of economic class, “working class”.) Just as someone isn’t part of the capitalist class if over time they do get most of their support from working and don’t have capital holdings. Economic class is a description of how you relate to the economy. > It is delusional to think our jobs are on the same level as someone who grafts all day with their hands and does back breaking work for minimum wage. The proletarian class isn’t defined by the nature of labor, but by the fact of selling it as one’s overwhelming-majority means of support within the economy. Yes, there are important differences within the class as well as the broad common features and interests.
pmulard 3y ago
There are plenty of factory/labor jobs that don’t require people to wreck their bodies. Many of them provide workstations where people have the option to sit/stand or they are walking around most of the time. Occasionally bending over, not too much heavily lifting. Many of my ex coworkers who did these jobs were in fantastic shape. It’s disingenuous to pick out an extreme example.

rwmj 3y ago

Not everyone who is working class is on minimum wage. Train drivers or boiler engineers or site foremen? All paid very well, in the UK as much or even more than tech workers.

guntherhermann 3y ago
I come from a working class background so I'm very aware of all of this. However my family (extended+) have all had poorly paying jobs, coal miners, nurses, pallet makers, warehouse, electricians, labourers, bakers. I'm the first to go to uni and do an easy job that pays well. It is physically easy and it is very different from the other jobs I've listed. Our jobs aren't working class. Edit: by the by, boiler engineers are not paid well. A self-employed plumber with a gas cert can earn a good wage, but your average british gas tradie isn't bringing home half of what I earn

dragonwriter 3y ago

> By the definition you give then people who claim benefits and do not work are not “working class”. Yes, people who do not rely on overwhelmingly on selling labor for their support are not working class (people who are working class might transitionally be on support without working, or might be on support while working, depending on the benefit structure, but if their principal source of support over an extended time is not selling labor, then they aren’t, as a matter of economic class, “working class”.) Just as someone isn’t part of the capitalist class if over time they do get most of their support from working and don’t have capital holdings. Economic class is a description of how you relate to the economy. > It is delusional to think our jobs are on the same level as someone who grafts all day with their hands and does back breaking work for minimum wage. The proletarian class isn’t defined by the nature of labor, but by the fact of selling it as one’s overwhelming-majority means of support within the economy. Yes, there are important differences within the class as well as the broad common features and interests.

pmulard 3y ago

There are plenty of factory/labor jobs that don’t require people to wreck their bodies. Many of them provide workstations where people have the option to sit/stand or they are walking around most of the time. Occasionally bending over, not too much heavily lifting. Many of my ex coworkers who did these jobs were in fantastic shape. It’s disingenuous to pick out an extreme example.