5 ms·

I think you'll find that there are other motivations in life other than earning money. I'd suggest that the judges maybe motivated by something else.

A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
Exactly the problem. Consider a judge's position in the modern world. What could possibly be those motivations?
- gambiting 3y ago
  .....you really can't think of any? Being in a position to help people by seeing that justice is done fairly isn't a motivation to you? Let me ask it this way - why are nurses doing what they do, even though it's a grueling job that pays very little? Is it fair to conclude that they must all be psychopaths because only a psychopath would agree to these conditions?
  - A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
    I have to hazard a guess: You don't have first-hand experience with the Federal court system. Trust me on this, "justice" is somewhere down its list of priorities; it cares more for tradition, ritual, and form. In civil court, just causes very frequently (indeed, almost as a rule,) lose -- and often because one side doesn't have deep enough pockets to engage proper representation and survive the expensive process of discovery in Federal court. A noble-minded judge, as you describe, wouldn't last a year. He'd quickly end up looking like the stereotype of the beleaguered public defender: Harried, exhausted, and unable to do a good job as he sees it. The people who do survive as judges are a very, very strange breed.
    - danaris 3y ago
      You have moved the goalposts here to specifically Federal court judges, when there are many, many other judges in our justice system.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > noble-minded judge, as you describe, wouldn't last a year I know a few judges, albeit not federal ones. They’re generally the philosophical type. The ambitious ones are keenly aware that their decisions will be re-hashed for the rest of their career. Also, judges being bound by “tradition, ritual and form” is an important part of the rule of law. Respecting that is a major component of justice.
    - catlover76 3y ago
      Ehh, I went to law school and spent some time in biglaw, and interned for a state court judge in CA, did internships, etc--I want to agree with much of what you say, but you're being too cynical I think. > Trust me on this, "justice" is somewhere down its list of priorities; it cares more for tradition, ritual, and form. I think is somewhat true, and is a generally applicable criticism of law and lawyers. I don't think values like justice are far down their list of priorities, but I think tradition etc. are just given too much weight. Lawyers constitute a tribe and collective which takes itself too seriously, at the end of the day, and don't value self-correction and improvement enough. There are plenty of noble-minded judges. The reason why litigation becomes expensive, and thus poses fairness issues, is a multi-faceted problem that boils down to a lot of boring things. Most people in law haven't had what I would consider a real job, and the culture of law is too obsequious and deferential for people to understand that the way lawyers have been doing things is usually stupid. They don't have a culture of thinking about how they work, and their personality types are very geared towards external validation, which means they will do things very stupidly if they get accolades and very meager financial bonuses for it, and they mistake such things as markers of actual progress and productivity. I could go on, and I reckon you have more experience in law than I do (I have been a software engineer for longer than I worked at law firm), but I think at the end of the day, I would remind you and others reading of the adage that one should not jump too quickly to ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
gambiting 3y ago
Same reason why IT Specialists work for national security agencies even though they could earn 10x the money in private sector - there are other motivations than money.
- user3939382 3y ago
  Yeah they’re willing to help destroy our rights and shred the constitution so they can play James Bond.
  - Dudeman112 3y ago
    I think you're underestimating just how many True Believers generations of omnipresent Jingoism can create

A_D_E_P_T 3y ago

Exactly the problem. Consider a judge's position in the modern world. What could possibly be those motivations?

gambiting 3y ago
.....you really can't think of any? Being in a position to help people by seeing that justice is done fairly isn't a motivation to you? Let me ask it this way - why are nurses doing what they do, even though it's a grueling job that pays very little? Is it fair to conclude that they must all be psychopaths because only a psychopath would agree to these conditions?
- A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
  I have to hazard a guess: You don't have first-hand experience with the Federal court system. Trust me on this, "justice" is somewhere down its list of priorities; it cares more for tradition, ritual, and form. In civil court, just causes very frequently (indeed, almost as a rule,) lose -- and often because one side doesn't have deep enough pockets to engage proper representation and survive the expensive process of discovery in Federal court. A noble-minded judge, as you describe, wouldn't last a year. He'd quickly end up looking like the stereotype of the beleaguered public defender: Harried, exhausted, and unable to do a good job as he sees it. The people who do survive as judges are a very, very strange breed.
  - danaris 3y ago
    You have moved the goalposts here to specifically Federal court judges, when there are many, many other judges in our justice system.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > noble-minded judge, as you describe, wouldn't last a year I know a few judges, albeit not federal ones. They’re generally the philosophical type. The ambitious ones are keenly aware that their decisions will be re-hashed for the rest of their career. Also, judges being bound by “tradition, ritual and form” is an important part of the rule of law. Respecting that is a major component of justice.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    Ehh, I went to law school and spent some time in biglaw, and interned for a state court judge in CA, did internships, etc--I want to agree with much of what you say, but you're being too cynical I think. > Trust me on this, "justice" is somewhere down its list of priorities; it cares more for tradition, ritual, and form. I think is somewhat true, and is a generally applicable criticism of law and lawyers. I don't think values like justice are far down their list of priorities, but I think tradition etc. are just given too much weight. Lawyers constitute a tribe and collective which takes itself too seriously, at the end of the day, and don't value self-correction and improvement enough. There are plenty of noble-minded judges. The reason why litigation becomes expensive, and thus poses fairness issues, is a multi-faceted problem that boils down to a lot of boring things. Most people in law haven't had what I would consider a real job, and the culture of law is too obsequious and deferential for people to understand that the way lawyers have been doing things is usually stupid. They don't have a culture of thinking about how they work, and their personality types are very geared towards external validation, which means they will do things very stupidly if they get accolades and very meager financial bonuses for it, and they mistake such things as markers of actual progress and productivity. I could go on, and I reckon you have more experience in law than I do (I have been a software engineer for longer than I worked at law firm), but I think at the end of the day, I would remind you and others reading of the adage that one should not jump too quickly to ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

gambiting 3y ago

Same reason why IT Specialists work for national security agencies even though they could earn 10x the money in private sector - there are other motivations than money.

user3939382 3y ago
Yeah they’re willing to help destroy our rights and shred the constitution so they can play James Bond.
- Dudeman112 3y ago
  I think you're underestimating just how many True Believers generations of omnipresent Jingoism can create