3 ms·

Indeed. Imagine if fines for individuals worked that way: "We have video evidence of you tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Pa

by p-e-w 3y ago

Indeed. Imagine if fines for individuals worked that way: "We have video evidence of you tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park. You are hereby fined... 2.3 cents, payable within 30 days. You can appeal this ruling." "Umm... I don't actually carry any coins..."

Elyra 3y ago
> 2.3 cents The exaggeration isn't even necessary, this is like a $1 fine for someone who makes $100k/yr and $30k on hand. I've had parking tickets which cost more for things which weren't even my fault (missing signage) but had to pay anyways because it's even more costly to take it to court.
dylan604 3y ago
I don't know what the actual fine for tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park actually is, but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine. I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise). I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. Neither of my citations involved the possibility of burning down the park. So I'm basing my expectation of a fine off of those.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine > [...] > I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. A $1000 fine in the absence of any actual damage is completely insane and potentially life-altering for low-income people. I cannot imagine what would make you think such a fine is "too low". I guess this is what happens when people are raised in a society where crippling punishments for slight offenses are the norm, as long as the offender is a person and not a corporation or government institution.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    the $500 fine was the max allowed. when i appeared in court, they presented me the with the max and threat of jail time in the hopes i would provide information in trade for a reduction. there's a whole lot more to the situation that i'm not going into in a public forum, so you can continue to ponder the situation like you know everything. based on the max fines being $500 for the tickets i received, i would absolutely hope that some idiot throwing a lit cigarette to the ground in a national park would be hit with a maximum fine as well. at this point, i wouldn't mind living in whatever cotton candy land you live in where a lit cigarette starting a forest fire than burns down half the state is a "slight offense". "potentially life-altering for low-income people" means nothing to me in this regard when other people can lose their home or worse because someone can't be bothered to put out their cancer stick.
    - DangitBobby 3y ago
      They were saying you were fined egregiously for a slight offense, not that tossing a lit cigarette would be. I tend to agree, potentially $1000 for accidentally attending an unpermitted event is an absolutely bonkers amount, even as a theoretical max.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        You're totally reading stuff into this that's not accurate. I have no idea where you get the concept I accidentally attended anything. I never said that I was ticketed for attending the event. From the views of the rangers, I was an active participant. The rangers originally planned to hit me with way more severe charges than a couple of tickets, but after a rational conversation with them, they realized I was not in charge. A bit of advice, don't look like you're in charge when the cops show up.
        DangitBobby 3y ago
        > I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise) This is what I read. You didn't know you were attending a non-permitted event (I.e., "accidentally attended an unpermitted event"). Obviously you knew you were in attendance, but not that the event wasn't allowed, just like you said. Not sure how I could possibly be "reading into", sounds like I got it exactly right. I also understood from your original telling that the ranger knew you had no idea what was going on. It's more alarming that the organizers got more severe punishment than you, not less. Nothing you've said makes a max $1k fine less insane.

by p-e-w 3y ago

Elyra 3y ago

> 2.3 cents The exaggeration isn't even necessary, this is like a $1 fine for someone who makes $100k/yr and $30k on hand. I've had parking tickets which cost more for things which weren't even my fault (missing signage) but had to pay anyways because it's even more costly to take it to court.

dylan604 3y ago

I don't know what the actual fine for tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park actually is, but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine. I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise). I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. Neither of my citations involved the possibility of burning down the park. So I'm basing my expectation of a fine off of those.

p-e-w 3y ago
> but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine > [...] > I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. A $1000 fine in the absence of any actual damage is completely insane and potentially life-altering for low-income people. I cannot imagine what would make you think such a fine is "too low". I guess this is what happens when people are raised in a society where crippling punishments for slight offenses are the norm, as long as the offender is a person and not a corporation or government institution.
- dylan604 3y ago
  the $500 fine was the max allowed. when i appeared in court, they presented me the with the max and threat of jail time in the hopes i would provide information in trade for a reduction. there's a whole lot more to the situation that i'm not going into in a public forum, so you can continue to ponder the situation like you know everything. based on the max fines being $500 for the tickets i received, i would absolutely hope that some idiot throwing a lit cigarette to the ground in a national park would be hit with a maximum fine as well. at this point, i wouldn't mind living in whatever cotton candy land you live in where a lit cigarette starting a forest fire than burns down half the state is a "slight offense". "potentially life-altering for low-income people" means nothing to me in this regard when other people can lose their home or worse because someone can't be bothered to put out their cancer stick.
  - DangitBobby 3y ago
    They were saying you were fined egregiously for a slight offense, not that tossing a lit cigarette would be. I tend to agree, potentially $1000 for accidentally attending an unpermitted event is an absolutely bonkers amount, even as a theoretical max.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      You're totally reading stuff into this that's not accurate. I have no idea where you get the concept I accidentally attended anything. I never said that I was ticketed for attending the event. From the views of the rangers, I was an active participant. The rangers originally planned to hit me with way more severe charges than a couple of tickets, but after a rational conversation with them, they realized I was not in charge. A bit of advice, don't look like you're in charge when the cops show up.
      - DangitBobby 3y ago
        > I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise) This is what I read. You didn't know you were attending a non-permitted event (I.e., "accidentally attended an unpermitted event"). Obviously you knew you were in attendance, but not that the event wasn't allowed, just like you said. Not sure how I could possibly be "reading into", sounds like I got it exactly right. I also understood from your original telling that the ranger knew you had no idea what was going on. It's more alarming that the organizers got more severe punishment than you, not less. Nothing you've said makes a max $1k fine less insane.