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$150,000...restated, 0.014% of cash and cash equivalents on balance sheet[1], or 0.004%/0.738% of 23Q2 revenue/profit[2], respectively. I really doubt $150k is

$150,000...restated, 0.014% of cash and cash equivalents on balance sheet[1], or 0.004%/0.738% of 23Q2 revenue/profit[2], respectively. I really doubt $150k is anywhere near sufficient to cover just the FCC's administrative costs on this one case alone. Megacaps are laughing all the way to the bank if this is all they're demanding a barely midcap company dish out, so to speak. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023013759/dish-20230630x10q.htm#Balancesheets https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023... [2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023013759/dish-20230630x10q.htm#OPERATIONSANDCOMPREHENSIVEINCOMELOSS_799 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023...

p-e-w 3y ago
Indeed. Imagine if fines for individuals worked that way: "We have video evidence of you tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park. You are hereby fined... 2.3 cents, payable within 30 days. You can appeal this ruling." "Umm... I don't actually carry any coins..."
- Elyra 3y ago
  > 2.3 cents The exaggeration isn't even necessary, this is like a $1 fine for someone who makes $100k/yr and $30k on hand. I've had parking tickets which cost more for things which weren't even my fault (missing signage) but had to pay anyways because it's even more costly to take it to court.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I don't know what the actual fine for tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park actually is, but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine. I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise). I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. Neither of my citations involved the possibility of burning down the park. So I'm basing my expectation of a fine off of those.
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    > but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine > [...] > I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. A $1000 fine in the absence of any actual damage is completely insane and potentially life-altering for low-income people. I cannot imagine what would make you think such a fine is "too low". I guess this is what happens when people are raised in a society where crippling punishments for slight offenses are the norm, as long as the offender is a person and not a corporation or government institution.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      the $500 fine was the max allowed. when i appeared in court, they presented me the with the max and threat of jail time in the hopes i would provide information in trade for a reduction. there's a whole lot more to the situation that i'm not going into in a public forum, so you can continue to ponder the situation like you know everything. based on the max fines being $500 for the tickets i received, i would absolutely hope that some idiot throwing a lit cigarette to the ground in a national park would be hit with a maximum fine as well. at this point, i wouldn't mind living in whatever cotton candy land you live in where a lit cigarette starting a forest fire than burns down half the state is a "slight offense". "potentially life-altering for low-income people" means nothing to me in this regard when other people can lose their home or worse because someone can't be bothered to put out their cancer stick.
      - DangitBobby 3y ago
        They were saying you were fined egregiously for a slight offense, not that tossing a lit cigarette would be. I tend to agree, potentially $1000 for accidentally attending an unpermitted event is an absolutely bonkers amount, even as a theoretical max.
        dylan604 3y ago
        You're totally reading stuff into this that's not accurate. I have no idea where you get the concept I accidentally attended anything. I never said that I was ticketed for attending the event. From the views of the rangers, I was an active participant. The rangers originally planned to hit me with way more severe charges than a couple of tickets, but after a rational conversation with them, they realized I was not in charge. A bit of advice, don't look like you're in charge when the cops show up.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> really doubt $150k is anywhere near sufficient to cover just the FCC's administrative costs on this one case alone This is a novel enforcement action. The point is to show it exists, not bankrupt the satellite industry for sport. The real threat, in any case, isn’t monetary penalties: it’s license revocation.
- autoexec 3y ago
  It doesn't appear that they revoked their license in this case, so it seems that there is still zero meaningful consequence for this company who left their trash where it doesn't belong in orbit. I'm not suggesting that the FCC should bankrupt an entire industry just for sport, but it'd sure be nice if they imposed an actual penalty against companies who violate their license and pollute the space around our planet forcing everyone else to dodge their trash and risking collisions. This pathetic slap on the wrist isn't going to cause Dish to think twice about not cleaning up after themselves in the future.
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    > This pathetic slap on the wrist isn't going to cause Dish to think twice Only if they assume the punishment never change. A slap on the wrist is a warning.
  - epivosism 3y ago
    Really strange viewpoint in this sub-thread. If a new government agent shows up telling you to pay it, it doesn't really matter how much they ask on day one; what you have to deal with is that they're real, they're aware, and they're monitoring you now. It's undeniable. That is the change you are confronted with, and it's very real. The point isn't to put a company out of business at the first strike. It's to convince them, the board, CEO, etc that this is a real thing and they need to adjust. Before that happens, you might never really know which laws people care about and which they don't.
RF_Savage 3y ago
On twitter there was talk that the real cost here is Dish admitting fault. As that is reportedly going to cause a noticable increase in their future launch insurance costs. That is the big thing here in addition to the fine.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  In guessing space insurance is done by a human not a dumb algorithm. I reckon the human can be persuaded to ignore parking fees when deciding the risk of the rocket blowing up.
- metaphor 3y ago
  > As that is reportedly going to cause a noticable increase in their future launch insurance costs. Interesting speculation...except there's this eyebrow raising P&E footnote buried in their 10-K filing[1; p. F-33]: >> We generally do not carry commercial launch or in-orbit insurance on any of the satellites that we own and therefore, we will bear the risk associated with any uninsured launch or in-orbit satellite failures. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023001811/dish-20221231x10k.htm#a1OrganizationandBusinessActivities_1393 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023...
daniel-cussen 3y ago
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p-e-w 3y ago

Indeed. Imagine if fines for individuals worked that way: "We have video evidence of you tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park. You are hereby fined... 2.3 cents, payable within 30 days. You can appeal this ruling." "Umm... I don't actually carry any coins..."

Elyra 3y ago
> 2.3 cents The exaggeration isn't even necessary, this is like a $1 fine for someone who makes $100k/yr and $30k on hand. I've had parking tickets which cost more for things which weren't even my fault (missing signage) but had to pay anyways because it's even more costly to take it to court.
dylan604 3y ago
I don't know what the actual fine for tossing a lit cigarette next to a hiking trail in Yosemite National Park actually is, but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine. I know that I found myself in a conversation with a ranger when I found out I was participating in an non-permitted event (even though I was explicitly told otherwise). I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. Neither of my citations involved the possibility of burning down the park. So I'm basing my expectation of a fine off of those.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > but I'm guessing that I'm going to think it is too low when I hear the actual fine > [...] > I received 2 citations with each carrying a $500 fine. A $1000 fine in the absence of any actual damage is completely insane and potentially life-altering for low-income people. I cannot imagine what would make you think such a fine is "too low". I guess this is what happens when people are raised in a society where crippling punishments for slight offenses are the norm, as long as the offender is a person and not a corporation or government institution.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    the $500 fine was the max allowed. when i appeared in court, they presented me the with the max and threat of jail time in the hopes i would provide information in trade for a reduction. there's a whole lot more to the situation that i'm not going into in a public forum, so you can continue to ponder the situation like you know everything. based on the max fines being $500 for the tickets i received, i would absolutely hope that some idiot throwing a lit cigarette to the ground in a national park would be hit with a maximum fine as well. at this point, i wouldn't mind living in whatever cotton candy land you live in where a lit cigarette starting a forest fire than burns down half the state is a "slight offense". "potentially life-altering for low-income people" means nothing to me in this regard when other people can lose their home or worse because someone can't be bothered to put out their cancer stick.
    - DangitBobby 3y ago
      They were saying you were fined egregiously for a slight offense, not that tossing a lit cigarette would be. I tend to agree, potentially $1000 for accidentally attending an unpermitted event is an absolutely bonkers amount, even as a theoretical max.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        You're totally reading stuff into this that's not accurate. I have no idea where you get the concept I accidentally attended anything. I never said that I was ticketed for attending the event. From the views of the rangers, I was an active participant. The rangers originally planned to hit me with way more severe charges than a couple of tickets, but after a rational conversation with them, they realized I was not in charge. A bit of advice, don't look like you're in charge when the cops show up.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> really doubt $150k is anywhere near sufficient to cover just the FCC's administrative costs on this one case alone This is a novel enforcement action. The point is to show it exists, not bankrupt the satellite industry for sport. The real threat, in any case, isn’t monetary penalties: it’s license revocation.

autoexec 3y ago
It doesn't appear that they revoked their license in this case, so it seems that there is still zero meaningful consequence for this company who left their trash where it doesn't belong in orbit. I'm not suggesting that the FCC should bankrupt an entire industry just for sport, but it'd sure be nice if they imposed an actual penalty against companies who violate their license and pollute the space around our planet forcing everyone else to dodge their trash and risking collisions. This pathetic slap on the wrist isn't going to cause Dish to think twice about not cleaning up after themselves in the future.
- Chris2048 3y ago
  > This pathetic slap on the wrist isn't going to cause Dish to think twice Only if they assume the punishment never change. A slap on the wrist is a warning.
- epivosism 3y ago
  Really strange viewpoint in this sub-thread. If a new government agent shows up telling you to pay it, it doesn't really matter how much they ask on day one; what you have to deal with is that they're real, they're aware, and they're monitoring you now. It's undeniable. That is the change you are confronted with, and it's very real. The point isn't to put a company out of business at the first strike. It's to convince them, the board, CEO, etc that this is a real thing and they need to adjust. Before that happens, you might never really know which laws people care about and which they don't.

RF_Savage 3y ago

On twitter there was talk that the real cost here is Dish admitting fault. As that is reportedly going to cause a noticable increase in their future launch insurance costs. That is the big thing here in addition to the fine.

londons_explore 3y ago
In guessing space insurance is done by a human not a dumb algorithm. I reckon the human can be persuaded to ignore parking fees when deciding the risk of the rocket blowing up.
metaphor 3y ago
> As that is reportedly going to cause a noticable increase in their future launch insurance costs. Interesting speculation...except there's this eyebrow raising P&E footnote buried in their 10-K filing[1; p. F-33]: >> We generally do not carry commercial launch or in-orbit insurance on any of the satellites that we own and therefore, we will bear the risk associated with any uninsured launch or in-orbit satellite failures. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023001811/dish-20221231x10k.htm#a1OrganizationandBusinessActivities_1393 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1001082/000155837023...

daniel-cussen 3y ago

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