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Regardless of what one considers 'adequate' pay for teachers, the aggregate statistics show that many -- most -- other developed countries achieve far better re

Regardless of what one considers 'adequate' pay for teachers, the aggregate statistics show that many -- most -- other developed countries achieve far better results with less spending per student. At least in my state and area, I've read through the budgets, and the typical canard of 'administration' making up the bulk of the spending also doesn't hold water. Around 70-75% of the spending was directly on teachers salary/benefits, and only 10-15% for administration, and 10-15% on facilities. That certainly seems like a reasonable allocation to me, and I'm not sure how one could adjust it further without creating a new obstacle.

jmye 3y ago
What do other countries pay teachers? What benefits are included? What does your district pay teachers? What benefits are included? Is part of what you’re counting as teacher pay something that’s taken care of via other taxes elsewhere (pension, healthcare)? I feel like this isn’t at all apples to apples. In general, when a teacher can make $50k/year, and someone with a 6 month boot camp can double that, you’re going to lose a lot of potential teachers to other jobs, regardless of what other countries pay their teachers and their software engineers. The US, frankly, isn’t Sweden (or wherever). Pretending that what works in one should work in the other is confounding a lot of things - do other countries force disruptive students to stay in the classroom? What measures are being used to indicate quality? Do other countries have similar numbers of parents unable to work with their children at home? Do other countries base funding on neighborhood taxes, and if not, how are you normalizing costs between them? I tend to think any comparative analysis is going to be extremely lacking, if it’s not done hand-in-hand with people who actually understand educational challenges in each environment. Certainly, reading a budget is insufficient.
- TimTheTinker 3y ago
  I agree with your point in this thread. Teachers in Finland, for example, are highly respected (like doctors in the US). They're highly trained, highly paid, highly trusted, and they really do a great job. I wish that were the case in the US -- but we'd be talking about overhauling an entire profession, not merely increasing wages. I do think increased wages would be a great idea, but I think it would take more than that to achieve what Finland has achieved.

jmye 3y ago

What do other countries pay teachers? What benefits are included? What does your district pay teachers? What benefits are included? Is part of what you’re counting as teacher pay something that’s taken care of via other taxes elsewhere (pension, healthcare)? I feel like this isn’t at all apples to apples. In general, when a teacher can make $50k/year, and someone with a 6 month boot camp can double that, you’re going to lose a lot of potential teachers to other jobs, regardless of what other countries pay their teachers and their software engineers. The US, frankly, isn’t Sweden (or wherever). Pretending that what works in one should work in the other is confounding a lot of things - do other countries force disruptive students to stay in the classroom? What measures are being used to indicate quality? Do other countries have similar numbers of parents unable to work with their children at home? Do other countries base funding on neighborhood taxes, and if not, how are you normalizing costs between them? I tend to think any comparative analysis is going to be extremely lacking, if it’s not done hand-in-hand with people who actually understand educational challenges in each environment. Certainly, reading a budget is insufficient.

TimTheTinker 3y ago
I agree with your point in this thread. Teachers in Finland, for example, are highly respected (like doctors in the US). They're highly trained, highly paid, highly trusted, and they really do a great job. I wish that were the case in the US -- but we'd be talking about overhauling an entire profession, not merely increasing wages. I do think increased wages would be a great idea, but I think it would take more than that to achieve what Finland has achieved.