4 ms·

I know trans people, I've including a couple I worked with for years and remain in contact with. Neither would ever claim that sex and gender are the same thing

I know trans people, I've including a couple I worked with for years and remain in contact with. Neither would ever claim that sex and gender are the same thing, because they don't have brain rot. Gender is cultural. There are cultures with more than two genders, but they continue to have the same distribution of X and Y chromosomes because sex is biological. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender https://www.coe.int/en/web/gender-matters/sex-and-gender https://www.coe.int/en/web/gender-matters/sex-and-gender

dragonwriter 3y ago
Sex is biological and multidimensional; but the construct assigning a binary categorization based on some (not necessarily static over time) sex traits is, even though the category assigned is often described, even in law, as the described-person’s “sex” is, in fact, a form of socially ascribed gender.
- graplp 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - graplp 3y ago
      His argument is basically just that redefining words can be used to make statements true that weren't true before the definition was changed. This is great, I can make the statement "pigs can fly" true if I redefine "pigs" to mean what we currently call "birds", or redefine "fly" to mean "roll around in the mud". Easy! So if it is your stance that men who call themselves women are female, or as you stated it, "trans women are female", then any disagreement is easily solved: simply redefine "female" to include those men. A brilliant masterstroke of non-argument, as you don't even need to justify this nonsense. It's true because you said it's true! Of course as per usual this is without any regard to what people who are actually female might think about this, being lumped in with these prostate-havers who fetishize their existence. The Categories Were Made For Man, indeed.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > So if I take my male dog to the vets and ask them to change him to a female dog, how does this work? I’m not sure what your question has to do with my post, because I didn’t say anything that could even be remotely be sensibly extended into anything which makes that question make sense, unless the answer you are looking for is “alter society and particularly the social constructs on the basis of which it ascribes gender to dogs”. (And, as well as being far afield from the post it responds to, the question is far afield from the subject being discussed, too.)
    - graplp 3y ago
      I'm enquiring as to whether you can apply this multidimensional concept of sex that you alluded to in the above comment to any species other than humans. Dogs, for example. Or maybe asparagus. Perhaps even earthworms. Please explain how this works.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  Put another way: sex is a bunch of physical attributes. People are generally assigned a gender at birth (usually male or female) based on those attributes. As they grow, each person may find that the intitial assignment fits them or doesn't. If it fits they are cis; if not they are trans.
  - nomdep 3y ago
    Exactly. The gender can change, but the sex classification remains. Trans women are women by gender and men by sex, thus different than those who are both women in gender and sex.
    - kdmccormick 3y ago
      I'm saying "man/male" is a gender, not a sex trait. When transitioning, some sexual traits may change, some may stay the same. That doesn't mean a trans woman is still a "man" in any sense.
      - mikrotikker 3y ago
        Male = sex, man = gender
  - biome 3y ago
    > Put another way: sex is a bunch of physical attributes. No, it's an organised system of different parts whose development is coordinated to deliver a specific function: that of reproduction. We have sexed bodies - female and male - because of our differential reproductive roles, and have evolved molecular mechanisms to drive development of those sexed bodies to support each reproductive role. Describing sex simply as a "bunch of physical attributes" completely ignores that it is an evolved system function for reproduction, predicated on female and male gametes.

dragonwriter 3y ago

Sex is biological and multidimensional; but the construct assigning a binary categorization based on some (not necessarily static over time) sex traits is, even though the category assigned is often described, even in law, as the described-person’s “sex” is, in fact, a form of socially ascribed gender.

graplp 3y ago
[flagged]
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - graplp 3y ago
    His argument is basically just that redefining words can be used to make statements true that weren't true before the definition was changed. This is great, I can make the statement "pigs can fly" true if I redefine "pigs" to mean what we currently call "birds", or redefine "fly" to mean "roll around in the mud". Easy! So if it is your stance that men who call themselves women are female, or as you stated it, "trans women are female", then any disagreement is easily solved: simply redefine "female" to include those men. A brilliant masterstroke of non-argument, as you don't even need to justify this nonsense. It's true because you said it's true! Of course as per usual this is without any regard to what people who are actually female might think about this, being lumped in with these prostate-havers who fetishize their existence. The Categories Were Made For Man, indeed.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > So if I take my male dog to the vets and ask them to change him to a female dog, how does this work? I’m not sure what your question has to do with my post, because I didn’t say anything that could even be remotely be sensibly extended into anything which makes that question make sense, unless the answer you are looking for is “alter society and particularly the social constructs on the basis of which it ascribes gender to dogs”. (And, as well as being far afield from the post it responds to, the question is far afield from the subject being discussed, too.)
  - graplp 3y ago
    I'm enquiring as to whether you can apply this multidimensional concept of sex that you alluded to in the above comment to any species other than humans. Dogs, for example. Or maybe asparagus. Perhaps even earthworms. Please explain how this works.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kdmccormick 3y ago
Put another way: sex is a bunch of physical attributes. People are generally assigned a gender at birth (usually male or female) based on those attributes. As they grow, each person may find that the intitial assignment fits them or doesn't. If it fits they are cis; if not they are trans.
- nomdep 3y ago
  Exactly. The gender can change, but the sex classification remains. Trans women are women by gender and men by sex, thus different than those who are both women in gender and sex.
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    I'm saying "man/male" is a gender, not a sex trait. When transitioning, some sexual traits may change, some may stay the same. That doesn't mean a trans woman is still a "man" in any sense.
    - mikrotikker 3y ago
      Male = sex, man = gender
- biome 3y ago
  > Put another way: sex is a bunch of physical attributes. No, it's an organised system of different parts whose development is coordinated to deliver a specific function: that of reproduction. We have sexed bodies - female and male - because of our differential reproductive roles, and have evolved molecular mechanisms to drive development of those sexed bodies to support each reproductive role. Describing sex simply as a "bunch of physical attributes" completely ignores that it is an evolved system function for reproduction, predicated on female and male gametes.