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For more context, the response from the canceled speakers: https://elizabethweiss74.wordpress.com/discussing-sex-is-no-longer-allowed-at-anthropology-conference

For more context, the response from the canceled speakers: https://elizabethweiss74.wordpress.com/discussing-sex-is-no-longer-allowed-at-anthropology-conferences/ https://elizabethweiss74.wordpress.com/discussing-sex-is-no-... They claim the accusation that "it assumes the truth of the proposition that it sets out to prove, namely, that sex and gender are simplistically binary" is false - one of their abstracts even makes explicit distinction between sex and gender [1]. While technically even biological sex is not entirely binary, it is, in the vast majority of cases, binary enough to support categorization of human remains as male or female. Perhaps these points would have been made in their talk, however, it was shut down without notice to its presenters, despite having earlier gotten approval for it. [1] In “No bones about it: skeletons are binary; people may not be”, Elizabeth Weiss wrote: “In forensics, however, anthropologists should be (and are) working on ways to ensure that skeletal finds are identified by both biological sex and their gender identity, which is essential due to the current rise in transitioning individuals.”

throwaway81523 3y ago
I had thought not even skeletons were binary. US revolutionary war general Casimir Pulaski seems to have left behind a non-binary skeleton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski#Exhumation_and_analysis_of_remains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski#Exhumation_and... A later study funded by the Smithsonian Institution, the results of which were released in 2019, concluded from the mitochondrial DNA of his grandniece, known injuries, and physical characteristics, that the skeleton was likely Pulaski's.[57] The skeleton has a number of typically female features, which has led to the hypothesis that Pulaski may have been female or intersex.[58][59][60] A documentary based on the Smithsonian study suggests that Pulaski's hypothesized intersex condition could have been caused by congenital adrenal hyperplasia, where a fetus with female chromosomes is exposed to a high level of testosterone in utero and develops partially male genitals. This analysis was based on the skeleton's female pelvis, facial structure and jaw angle, in combination with the fact that Pulaski identified as and lived as male.[55][61]
- wongarsu 3y ago
  Human hermaphrodites/intersex people have definitely existed throughout history [1][2]. They are very rare, modern estimates put them at somewhere around 0.02%–0.05% of all births. So for any random skeleton it's probably safe to assume it isn't intersex, but analyze enough and you will find a couple that are. Just the normal variation of humans is also an issue. For almost any characteristic, the bell curve of typical male features overlaps with the bell curve of typical female features. There are some anatomical features that are very distinct like the shape of the pelvis, but if you don't have a complete skeleton you might mistake a tall strong woman for a man or the other way around. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Use_regarding_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Use_regarding_hu... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#History
  - fanf2 3y ago
    The shape of the pelvis depends more on whether it has been through childbirth than on the sex of its owner.
  - cherry_tree 3y ago
    Any source for 0.02-0.05% ? I’ve heard various numbers
    - wongarsu 3y ago
      Wikipedia, which quotes it from a paper from 2017 [1], which in turn takes the number from a paper from 2007. Though taking a quick peek at some papers on specific forms of intersex, it seems like there are both large uncertainties in the actual numbers (about a factor of 2) and large regional differences (a specific form of intersex being an order of magnitude more common in one country than in another seems to be common). Though maybe that's just down to the available data. 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/
- SenAnder 3y ago
  To re-state: "in the vast majority of cases, binary enough" Yes, there are always exceptions. Some people have six fingers or two heads. That is not license to pretend that, given a human skeleton, we cannot make any inferences about their... role in the human reproductive cycle and society, to avoid the contentious terms of "sex" and "gender". That's like saying we can't tell if a coin will land heads 50% of the time, because sometimes we get 10 heads in a row.
mplewis 3y ago
Elizabeth Weiss is already known for being insensitive at best, so I would take her interpretation of the situation with a heavy grain of salt.
- bellown 3y ago
  Elizabeth Weiss has ruffled feathers because she's spoken out against the rampant and ingrained misogyny in her field. In particular, some museum curators have accommodated demands by indigenous tribes, usually from men, that female curators aren't permitted to handle their objects. So in the name of cultural respect, you have this outright sexism being endorsed instead. Here's an example, from her Twitter, of how menstruating women were being discriminated against by her university's curation protocols; thankfully she got this overturned by getting lawyers involved: > The @SJSU protocol for handling Native American remains used to state “Menstruating personnel will not be permitted to handle ancestors”. This sexist rule has been deleted, after @PacificLegal and I pointed out that it may be illegal. An important victory! #NAGPRA #anthrotwitter - https://twitter.com/eweissunburied/status/1514373633065422851 https://twitter.com/eweissunburied/status/151437363306542285... This might be considered an insensitive reaction by some, but only if you elevate the desires of misogynist men above all else.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    You can be a both an ardent feminist and "gender-critical" to the point of being a transphobe, they overlap quite often, to my constant surprise.
Ensorceled 3y ago
From the response: > UK anthropologist Kathleen Richardson’s abstract highlighted issues surrounding material disparities between the sexes in the tech industry that are being erased by counting men who identify as trans as women rather than by having more women enter the field. > Francophone Canadian anthropologist Michèle Sirois was to offer an ethnographic account of the ways “in which Quebec feminists have organized to document, clarify and oppose the exploitative surrogacy industry that hides under the guise of 'equity' and 'inclusion'”, and in which surrogacy policies which exploit poor women are cynically framed as liberatory. This session was going to be a "terf" train wreck and a massive distraction for the conference.
- bellown 3y ago
  Both of those talks sound well worth attending. It's unfortunate that the anthropologists who blocked this session are so averse to having their own dominant culture critically examined.
  - benterix 3y ago
    There is a reason why they don't want to have it examined.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  > This session was going to be a "terf" train wreck Yeah that's how they win. 'You will accept our religion or we will trainwreck your conference by mobilising a million zealots to call you names.' You don't want them to win because they're not people who are operating on logic, they're operating on faith. That's not conducive to an orderly world.

throwaway81523 3y ago

I had thought not even skeletons were binary. US revolutionary war general Casimir Pulaski seems to have left behind a non-binary skeleton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski#Exhumation_and_analysis_of_remains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski#Exhumation_and... A later study funded by the Smithsonian Institution, the results of which were released in 2019, concluded from the mitochondrial DNA of his grandniece, known injuries, and physical characteristics, that the skeleton was likely Pulaski's.[57] The skeleton has a number of typically female features, which has led to the hypothesis that Pulaski may have been female or intersex.[58][59][60] A documentary based on the Smithsonian study suggests that Pulaski's hypothesized intersex condition could have been caused by congenital adrenal hyperplasia, where a fetus with female chromosomes is exposed to a high level of testosterone in utero and develops partially male genitals. This analysis was based on the skeleton's female pelvis, facial structure and jaw angle, in combination with the fact that Pulaski identified as and lived as male.[55][61]

wongarsu 3y ago
Human hermaphrodites/intersex people have definitely existed throughout history [1][2]. They are very rare, modern estimates put them at somewhere around 0.02%–0.05% of all births. So for any random skeleton it's probably safe to assume it isn't intersex, but analyze enough and you will find a couple that are. Just the normal variation of humans is also an issue. For almost any characteristic, the bell curve of typical male features overlaps with the bell curve of typical female features. There are some anatomical features that are very distinct like the shape of the pelvis, but if you don't have a complete skeleton you might mistake a tall strong woman for a man or the other way around. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Use_regarding_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Use_regarding_hu... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#History
- fanf2 3y ago
  The shape of the pelvis depends more on whether it has been through childbirth than on the sex of its owner.
- cherry_tree 3y ago
  Any source for 0.02-0.05% ? I’ve heard various numbers
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    Wikipedia, which quotes it from a paper from 2017 [1], which in turn takes the number from a paper from 2007. Though taking a quick peek at some papers on specific forms of intersex, it seems like there are both large uncertainties in the actual numbers (about a factor of 2) and large regional differences (a specific form of intersex being an order of magnitude more common in one country than in another seems to be common). Though maybe that's just down to the available data. 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/
SenAnder 3y ago
To re-state: "in the vast majority of cases, binary enough" Yes, there are always exceptions. Some people have six fingers or two heads. That is not license to pretend that, given a human skeleton, we cannot make any inferences about their... role in the human reproductive cycle and society, to avoid the contentious terms of "sex" and "gender". That's like saying we can't tell if a coin will land heads 50% of the time, because sometimes we get 10 heads in a row.

mplewis 3y ago

Elizabeth Weiss is already known for being insensitive at best, so I would take her interpretation of the situation with a heavy grain of salt.

bellown 3y ago
Elizabeth Weiss has ruffled feathers because she's spoken out against the rampant and ingrained misogyny in her field. In particular, some museum curators have accommodated demands by indigenous tribes, usually from men, that female curators aren't permitted to handle their objects. So in the name of cultural respect, you have this outright sexism being endorsed instead. Here's an example, from her Twitter, of how menstruating women were being discriminated against by her university's curation protocols; thankfully she got this overturned by getting lawyers involved: > The @SJSU protocol for handling Native American remains used to state “Menstruating personnel will not be permitted to handle ancestors”. This sexist rule has been deleted, after @PacificLegal and I pointed out that it may be illegal. An important victory! #NAGPRA #anthrotwitter - https://twitter.com/eweissunburied/status/1514373633065422851 https://twitter.com/eweissunburied/status/151437363306542285... This might be considered an insensitive reaction by some, but only if you elevate the desires of misogynist men above all else.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  You can be a both an ardent feminist and "gender-critical" to the point of being a transphobe, they overlap quite often, to my constant surprise.

Ensorceled 3y ago

From the response: > UK anthropologist Kathleen Richardson’s abstract highlighted issues surrounding material disparities between the sexes in the tech industry that are being erased by counting men who identify as trans as women rather than by having more women enter the field. > Francophone Canadian anthropologist Michèle Sirois was to offer an ethnographic account of the ways “in which Quebec feminists have organized to document, clarify and oppose the exploitative surrogacy industry that hides under the guise of 'equity' and 'inclusion'”, and in which surrogacy policies which exploit poor women are cynically framed as liberatory. This session was going to be a "terf" train wreck and a massive distraction for the conference.

bellown 3y ago
Both of those talks sound well worth attending. It's unfortunate that the anthropologists who blocked this session are so averse to having their own dominant culture critically examined.
- benterix 3y ago
  There is a reason why they don't want to have it examined.
15457345234 3y ago
> This session was going to be a "terf" train wreck Yeah that's how they win. 'You will accept our religion or we will trainwreck your conference by mobilising a million zealots to call you names.' You don't want them to win because they're not people who are operating on logic, they're operating on faith. That's not conducive to an orderly world.